4 ms·

I'm going to go with mental illness. These people arn't proving themselves, they're abandoning their humanity. It's not something to be celebrated.

rdl 16y ago
I'd be willing to assume a lot more personal risk to be the first person to do something like land on Mars or summit Everest, especially if it's not even clear that it can be done, than to be the 50th. Even more so if there is some compelling scientific benefit to going (which, thanks to robotics, there really isn't anymore, at least for brief boot/flag-planting visits). There are extremely limited cases where it would be worth sacrificing someone's life to accomplish something (jumping on a grenade to save a bunch of other people, perhaps where acting saves other people). I could see people willingly sacrificing themselves for sufficiently otherwise unobtainable knowledge, but it would be immoral if not voluntary.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  It's probably also worth noting that the first man to successfully scale Everest, Sir Edmund Hillary, has publicly voiced his disgust with those who leave their fellow climbers to die on the mountain.
  - rdl 16y ago
    I think it's ok to leave dead bodies on the mountain to make your ascent, but not ok to leave someone who could possibly be saved. Taking any substantial risks to the living to recover bodies is completely unacceptable -- Everest is as good a grave as any. I wouldn't take the 4% risk of death from climbing Everest at all just to be #50 in a single climbing season, though. I'd be willing to accept a 50% risk of death to be the first person on Mars.
    - JabavuAdams 16y ago
      > Taking any substantial risks to the living to recover bodies is completely unacceptable Why? This is a cultural conclusion that can be debated and modified. People are already risking their lives just by being on Everest, so it can't just be risking life == bad.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  Bringing up Mars in this discussion makes me think of Olympus Mons. The same kinds of folks attracted and willing to risk their life on being the 1000th person to reach the top of Mt. Everest may be even more attracted to being the first person to scale the tallest mountain in the star system.
d2viant 16y ago
That's a pretty harsh characterization of their motivation. I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon. I'd absolutely celebrate anybody who achieves that. The world needs more people who are willing to step so far out of their comfort zone to achieve seemingly impossible things.
- Natsu 16y ago
  > I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon. I don't claim to know anything about their motivation, but the accounts I've read are somewhat different than the romantic image you seem to have. For example, I submit this: "The only food I'd been able to force down over the preceding three days was a bowl of Ramen soup and a handful of peanut M&M's. Weeks of violent coughing had left me with two separated ribs, making it excruciatingly painful to breathe. Twenty-nine thousand twenty-eight feet up in the troposphere, there was so little oxygen reaching my brain that my mental capacity was that of a slow child. Under the circumstances, I was incapable of feeling much of anything except cold and tired." Source: http://outsideonline.com/outside/destinations/199609/travel-pf-199609_into_thin_air_1-sidWCMDEV_049618.html http://outsideonline.com/outside/destinations/199609/travel-...
- araneae 16y ago
  establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon That's bullshit talk. What does that even mean? I think mental illness is much more appropriate, because you can "connect with" nature just as well by climbing smaller mountains. No, these people are attracted to Everest specifically because it's so extraordinarily difficult there's a 2% chance they won't come off it alive, or possibly lose body parts. There's something wrong with you if you're willing to risk your life that easily.
  - rickr 16y ago
    Are your numbers correct? If so that's a 98% chance you come out fine. Do astronauts have a mental illness?
checker659 16y ago
As far as the Sherpas go, they are born into the mountains. It's their world. They scale the mountains because that's what they know how to do best. It's their way of life (just like your way of life might be being an entrepreneur).
mfukar 16y ago
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's 'crazy', an 'illness', or even remotely illogical. Of course, I wouldn't know what to characterize it other than sheer sense of adventure. I can totally understand going for the highest achievement one can pull off, and it certainly might seem like lunacy to many.

rdl 16y ago

I'd be willing to assume a lot more personal risk to be the first person to do something like land on Mars or summit Everest, especially if it's not even clear that it can be done, than to be the 50th. Even more so if there is some compelling scientific benefit to going (which, thanks to robotics, there really isn't anymore, at least for brief boot/flag-planting visits). There are extremely limited cases where it would be worth sacrificing someone's life to accomplish something (jumping on a grenade to save a bunch of other people, perhaps where acting saves other people). I could see people willingly sacrificing themselves for sufficiently otherwise unobtainable knowledge, but it would be immoral if not voluntary.

burgerbrain 16y ago
It's probably also worth noting that the first man to successfully scale Everest, Sir Edmund Hillary, has publicly voiced his disgust with those who leave their fellow climbers to die on the mountain.
- rdl 16y ago
  I think it's ok to leave dead bodies on the mountain to make your ascent, but not ok to leave someone who could possibly be saved. Taking any substantial risks to the living to recover bodies is completely unacceptable -- Everest is as good a grave as any. I wouldn't take the 4% risk of death from climbing Everest at all just to be #50 in a single climbing season, though. I'd be willing to accept a 50% risk of death to be the first person on Mars.
  - JabavuAdams 16y ago
    > Taking any substantial risks to the living to recover bodies is completely unacceptable Why? This is a cultural conclusion that can be debated and modified. People are already risking their lives just by being on Everest, so it can't just be risking life == bad.
mkramlich 16y ago
Bringing up Mars in this discussion makes me think of Olympus Mons. The same kinds of folks attracted and willing to risk their life on being the 1000th person to reach the top of Mt. Everest may be even more attracted to being the first person to scale the tallest mountain in the star system.

d2viant 16y ago

That's a pretty harsh characterization of their motivation. I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon. I'd absolutely celebrate anybody who achieves that. The world needs more people who are willing to step so far out of their comfort zone to achieve seemingly impossible things.

Natsu 16y ago
> I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon. I don't claim to know anything about their motivation, but the accounts I've read are somewhat different than the romantic image you seem to have. For example, I submit this: "The only food I'd been able to force down over the preceding three days was a bowl of Ramen soup and a handful of peanut M&M's. Weeks of violent coughing had left me with two separated ribs, making it excruciatingly painful to breathe. Twenty-nine thousand twenty-eight feet up in the troposphere, there was so little oxygen reaching my brain that my mental capacity was that of a slow child. Under the circumstances, I was incapable of feeling much of anything except cold and tired." Source: http://outsideonline.com/outside/destinations/199609/travel-pf-199609_into_thin_air_1-sidWCMDEV_049618.html http://outsideonline.com/outside/destinations/199609/travel-...
araneae 16y ago
establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon That's bullshit talk. What does that even mean? I think mental illness is much more appropriate, because you can "connect with" nature just as well by climbing smaller mountains. No, these people are attracted to Everest specifically because it's so extraordinarily difficult there's a 2% chance they won't come off it alive, or possibly lose body parts. There's something wrong with you if you're willing to risk your life that easily.
- rickr 16y ago
  Are your numbers correct? If so that's a 98% chance you come out fine. Do astronauts have a mental illness?

checker659 16y ago

As far as the Sherpas go, they are born into the mountains. It's their world. They scale the mountains because that's what they know how to do best. It's their way of life (just like your way of life might be being an entrepreneur).

mfukar 16y ago

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's 'crazy', an 'illness', or even remotely illogical. Of course, I wouldn't know what to characterize it other than sheer sense of adventure. I can totally understand going for the highest achievement one can pull off, and it certainly might seem like lunacy to many.