7 ms·

> has increasingly ostracized himself with his Twitter comments, including transphobic statements and comments about a “heterosexual pride day,” and that “it’s

> has increasingly ostracized himself with his Twitter comments, including transphobic statements and comments about a “heterosexual pride day,” and that “it’s ok to be white.” Is it not ok to be White or heterosexual? This kind of exclusion over these statements likely harms Microsoft's reputation more than it helps it.

IvyMike 8y ago
It is worth reading the history and intention of this phrase for context. https://qz.com/1144783/the-rise-of-the-alt-rights-catchphrase-its-ok-to-be-white/ https://qz.com/1144783/the-rise-of-the-alt-rights-catchphras...
- manfredo 8y ago
  > Persson’s is not an isolated tweet. “It’s ok to be white” was invented by the trollsters of the “politically incorrect” messaging board on 4chan. The phrase was carefully designed to trick progressive, left-leaning Americans into saying the contrary—that it is not ok to be white—in a strange nationwide campaign to finally expose anti-white bias. And it's evidently working. Taking offense to the phrase "it's okay to be White" is falling straight into the trolls' hands. If we want to stop the machinations of said trolls then we should stop taking offense to the statement, since taking offense to the statement "it's okay to be X" necessarily implies that it's not okay to be X. If Microsoft was aware of the phrase's history then their behavior is even more counterproductive; they knowingly walked into this trap.
  - Retra 8y ago
    Even so... Setting traps and then trying to blame others for falling into them? Does that sound like the behavior of a trustworthy and admirable person?
    - manfredo 8y ago
      I think you're missing the point. Who knows what Notch was trying to accomplish by saying "it's okay to be White". For all we know he saw people taking offense to the phrase, and was perturbed by people evidently claiming that it is not okay to be White (the link you provided included responses to the phrase that included calls for "white genocide") and wanted to emphasize his own view that being white is not something bad. If you want to portray Notch as some kind of white supremacist aligned person, then the onus is on you to prove it. The likelihood that he is part of the overwhelming majority of people that don't really care about 4chan and other obscure internet subcultures is significantly greater. The point remains, the overwhelming majority of people will not take offense to the phrase "it's okay to be White" and will be perturbed by the people who do take offense to this phrase.
      - Retra 8y ago
        Out of context, "it's ok to be white" is not a disagreement with the phrase "it is not ok to be white", it is a disagreement with the phrase "it is ok to be non-white." The overwhelming majority of people both agree with the latter and find the former to be irrational and obscene. If he's going to comment on something so divisive, he'd better add something to the discussion beyond additional ambiguity, or else he's just fanning flames and race baiting. > [He] wanted to emphasize his own view that being white is not something bad. Obviously. Perhaps emphasizing that view in this context does more harm than good? Is that possible? Perhaps when someone says something obscene and stupid, you don't pile on with additional obscene and stupid responses?
        manfredo 8y ago
        > Out of context, "it's ok to be white" is not a disagreement with the phrase "it is not ok to be white", it is a disagreement with the phrase "it is ok to be non-white." How do you interpret "it's okay to be X" to "it's not okay to be non-X"?. When somebody says "it's okay the be gay" they're actually saying it's not okay to be straight? This line of reasoning doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny. In my view the phrase "it's okay to be White" means exactly what is says: that it's okay to be White. It's totally fine to say "it's okay to be White and it's okay to be {Asian, Black, Latino, etc.}". > Obviously. Perhaps emphasizing that view in this context does more harm than dood? Is that possible? Perhaps when someone says something obscene and stupid, you don't pile on with additional obscene and stupid responses? But there's nothing obscene or stupid about saying "it's okay to be White" or "it's okay to be gay" or "it's okay to be X" (at least as long as X isn't something illegal or otherwise objectively harmful). What's stupid are the people getting riled up about the phrase "it's okay to be White". It's needless outrage that fuels resentment. The fact that it got started by 4chan makes it even worse. The people that insist on taking offense are fostering needless outrage and they're being played by 4chan. I'm particularly confused at why you persist in trying to condemn the phrase when you are fully aware that 4chan intended for people to condemn the phrase and thus portray themselves as harboring negativity towards whites. Why are you doing exactly what 4chan wants you to do? The article you posted even advises against the bevhavior you're engaging in: > Lundberg’s expert suggestion is not to reject the phrase. “I think that the best response is to deny them the pleasure of the fight—of course it is ok to be white: now how can we make it ok to be a person of any color?”
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
villan 8y ago
If you are seriously asking, the answer is that these are dog whistles for white nationalistic and homophobic groups respectively. Furthermore, the concept of "the white race" is unscientific, and was created to group together a majority against minorities. Italians, Jews, even the Irish were consider "non-white", while the Spanish conquistadors began calling themselves blanco in order to state their superiority over the aztecs.
- manfredo 8y ago
  Accusations of "dog whistling" is often a cheap way of stuffing words into other people's mouths. Plenty of people alleged that "Black lives matter" was a dog whistle for either the supremacy of blacks (by implying that only black lives matter). Plenty of people accuse those of advocating racial reparations of "dog whistling" for Zimbabwe-style confiscation of property. And seriously, think about what it really mans to take offense at the phrase "it's okay to be white". What would you think of someone who gets offended when people say "it's okay to be gay"? What would you think of someone that gets offended when people say "it's okay to be an immigrant?" Why, then, do you think it is at all productive to take offense at the phrase "it's okay to be White"? Whites will be just as offended as gays or immigrants, and rightly so. Also, as far as I know the Spanish never called themselves "blanco". The Spanish word for lighter skinned people is "rubio" (though this is sometimes also used to refer to blonde hair). White Spaniards - using the modern understanding of the term White - during the conquest of the New World called themselvs "peninsulares" (after the Iberian peninsula) or "corillos" [1]. As far as the unscientific nature of the term "White" I don't find that particularly relevant. Race is a social construct, not a scientific determination. It would be just as (un)fair to criticize Black Lives Matter for referring to an unscientific concept. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

IvyMike 8y ago

It is worth reading the history and intention of this phrase for context. https://qz.com/1144783/the-rise-of-the-alt-rights-catchphrase-its-ok-to-be-white/ https://qz.com/1144783/the-rise-of-the-alt-rights-catchphras...

manfredo 8y ago
> Persson’s is not an isolated tweet. “It’s ok to be white” was invented by the trollsters of the “politically incorrect” messaging board on 4chan. The phrase was carefully designed to trick progressive, left-leaning Americans into saying the contrary—that it is not ok to be white—in a strange nationwide campaign to finally expose anti-white bias. And it's evidently working. Taking offense to the phrase "it's okay to be White" is falling straight into the trolls' hands. If we want to stop the machinations of said trolls then we should stop taking offense to the statement, since taking offense to the statement "it's okay to be X" necessarily implies that it's not okay to be X. If Microsoft was aware of the phrase's history then their behavior is even more counterproductive; they knowingly walked into this trap.
- Retra 8y ago
  Even so... Setting traps and then trying to blame others for falling into them? Does that sound like the behavior of a trustworthy and admirable person?
  - manfredo 8y ago
    I think you're missing the point. Who knows what Notch was trying to accomplish by saying "it's okay to be White". For all we know he saw people taking offense to the phrase, and was perturbed by people evidently claiming that it is not okay to be White (the link you provided included responses to the phrase that included calls for "white genocide") and wanted to emphasize his own view that being white is not something bad. If you want to portray Notch as some kind of white supremacist aligned person, then the onus is on you to prove it. The likelihood that he is part of the overwhelming majority of people that don't really care about 4chan and other obscure internet subcultures is significantly greater. The point remains, the overwhelming majority of people will not take offense to the phrase "it's okay to be White" and will be perturbed by the people who do take offense to this phrase.
    - Retra 8y ago
      Out of context, "it's ok to be white" is not a disagreement with the phrase "it is not ok to be white", it is a disagreement with the phrase "it is ok to be non-white." The overwhelming majority of people both agree with the latter and find the former to be irrational and obscene. If he's going to comment on something so divisive, he'd better add something to the discussion beyond additional ambiguity, or else he's just fanning flames and race baiting. > [He] wanted to emphasize his own view that being white is not something bad. Obviously. Perhaps emphasizing that view in this context does more harm than good? Is that possible? Perhaps when someone says something obscene and stupid, you don't pile on with additional obscene and stupid responses?
      - manfredo 8y ago
        > Out of context, "it's ok to be white" is not a disagreement with the phrase "it is not ok to be white", it is a disagreement with the phrase "it is ok to be non-white." How do you interpret "it's okay to be X" to "it's not okay to be non-X"?. When somebody says "it's okay the be gay" they're actually saying it's not okay to be straight? This line of reasoning doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny. In my view the phrase "it's okay to be White" means exactly what is says: that it's okay to be White. It's totally fine to say "it's okay to be White and it's okay to be {Asian, Black, Latino, etc.}". > Obviously. Perhaps emphasizing that view in this context does more harm than dood? Is that possible? Perhaps when someone says something obscene and stupid, you don't pile on with additional obscene and stupid responses? But there's nothing obscene or stupid about saying "it's okay to be White" or "it's okay to be gay" or "it's okay to be X" (at least as long as X isn't something illegal or otherwise objectively harmful). What's stupid are the people getting riled up about the phrase "it's okay to be White". It's needless outrage that fuels resentment. The fact that it got started by 4chan makes it even worse. The people that insist on taking offense are fostering needless outrage and they're being played by 4chan. I'm particularly confused at why you persist in trying to condemn the phrase when you are fully aware that 4chan intended for people to condemn the phrase and thus portray themselves as harboring negativity towards whites. Why are you doing exactly what 4chan wants you to do? The article you posted even advises against the bevhavior you're engaging in: > Lundberg’s expert suggestion is not to reject the phrase. “I think that the best response is to deny them the pleasure of the fight—of course it is ok to be white: now how can we make it ok to be a person of any color?”

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

villan 8y ago

If you are seriously asking, the answer is that these are dog whistles for white nationalistic and homophobic groups respectively. Furthermore, the concept of "the white race" is unscientific, and was created to group together a majority against minorities. Italians, Jews, even the Irish were consider "non-white", while the Spanish conquistadors began calling themselves blanco in order to state their superiority over the aztecs.

manfredo 8y ago
Accusations of "dog whistling" is often a cheap way of stuffing words into other people's mouths. Plenty of people alleged that "Black lives matter" was a dog whistle for either the supremacy of blacks (by implying that only black lives matter). Plenty of people accuse those of advocating racial reparations of "dog whistling" for Zimbabwe-style confiscation of property. And seriously, think about what it really mans to take offense at the phrase "it's okay to be white". What would you think of someone who gets offended when people say "it's okay to be gay"? What would you think of someone that gets offended when people say "it's okay to be an immigrant?" Why, then, do you think it is at all productive to take offense at the phrase "it's okay to be White"? Whites will be just as offended as gays or immigrants, and rightly so. Also, as far as I know the Spanish never called themselves "blanco". The Spanish word for lighter skinned people is "rubio" (though this is sometimes also used to refer to blonde hair). White Spaniards - using the modern understanding of the term White - during the conquest of the New World called themselvs "peninsulares" (after the Iberian peninsula) or "corillos" [1]. As far as the unscientific nature of the term "White" I don't find that particularly relevant. Race is a social construct, not a scientific determination. It would be just as (un)fair to criticize Black Lives Matter for referring to an unscientific concept. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta