5 ms·

> Jakarta's problems are largely man-made – the area's large population has extracted so much groundwater that it has impacted the ground levels, and many surfa

> Jakarta's problems are largely man-made – the area's large population has extracted so much groundwater that it has impacted the ground levels, and many surface water resources are polluted.

walrus01 7y ago
Not causing sinking, but if we drain this, agriculture in the US will be severely impacted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer " Since the 1940s, pumping from the Ogallala has drawn the aquifer down more than 300 feet (90 m) in some areas. Producers have taken steps to reduce their reliance on irrigated water. Streamlined operations allow them to produce significantly greater yield using roughly the same amount of water needed four decades ago. Still, losses to the aquifer between 2001 and 2011 equated to a third of its cumulative depletion during the entire 20th century. The Ogallala is recharged primarily by rainwater, but only about one inch of precipitation actually reaches the aquifer annually. Rainfall in most of the Texas High Plains is minimal, evaporation is high, and infiltration rates are slow.[24] "
- SapporoChris 7y ago
  From the listed article, a 9% draw down since extraction started in 1950. I consider this a concern and actions should be taken. But it seems like there is plenty of time to take action, and there will be lots of continuing warning signs such as wells that need deepening. I'm for taking action, but I think global warming is a larger problem. Oh hey, global warming will probably exacerbate the Ogallal situation! Also, in evil mind frame here, if USA loses out on cheap food, perhaps it will deal a blow to the obesity epidemic.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Currently in the US, 8% of grown corn is the stuff we eat, and 11% is devoted to sugar production (and some other stuff) - with Ethanol production and livestock feed accounting for 60% of the total usage[1]. If there were droughts we'd probably see Ethanol become price inefficient first, then livestock, and it's that 11% of corn that gets transformed into sweeteners that is really driving obesity in the modern world. The other issue that seems to be related to obesity is the weird chemicals we're imbibing - both knowingly through food consumption[2] and unknowingly by their entrance into the food chain[3]. The USA really needs to get it's act together about finding out wtf is poisoning all of the people there and fix that. I'd love it if they could get their stuff together about fighting obesity - there is something fundamentally wrong with the western diet that is more prevalent in cheap foods and making some greedy people a quick buck while setting society up for a really heavy cost in the near future. A recent decrease in activity certainly contributes, but it's more than just a lack of exercise. [1] Corn usage... leaning on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_States#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_... [2] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325034.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325034.php [3] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3mzve/human-waste-is-contaminating-australian-wildlife-with-more-than-60-pharmaceuticals https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3mzve/human-wast...
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    I'm not sure that cheap food, by itself, causes obesity. I suspect that it's more like flavor-enhanced food, and food that has calories but little other nutrition, cause obesity.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Subsidence is a widespread problem in the US: Subsidence is a global problem and, in the United States, more than 17,000 square miles in 45 States, an area roughly the size of New Hampshire and Vermont combined, have been directly affected by subsidence. https://water.usgs.gov/ogw/subsidence.html https://water.usgs.gov/ogw/subsidence.html I can't readily find anything stating outright that there is subsidence associated with the Ogallala Aquifer, but my recollection is I have seen such in the past.
makerofspoons 7y ago
A similar disaster is playing out in Mexico City: https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647180486/mexico-city-thirsty-and-sinking https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647180486/mexico-city-thirsty...
- owyn 7y ago
  A similar disaster is playing out in Bangalore: https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/bengaluru-is-facing-a-terrible-water-crisis-and-only-tanker-mafias-are-gaining_in_5c8b45e1e4b0db7da9f1a154 https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/bengaluru-is-facing-a-te...
  - namirez 7y ago
    A similar disaster is playing out in Tehran: https://www.livescience.com/64235-tehran-is-sinking.html https://www.livescience.com/64235-tehran-is-sinking.html
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - walrus01 7y ago
      And the "water tanker mafia" in Karachi: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/09/10/645525392/for-karachis-water-mafia-stolen-h20-is-a-lucrative-business https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/09/10/6455253...
      - theNJR 7y ago
        Which inspired a VR game I made. https://store.steampowered.com/app/510930/Thirst_VR/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/510930/Thirst_VR/
        walrus01 7y ago
        Have you read this? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23209924-the-water-knife https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23209924-the-water-knife
siruncledrew 7y ago
> “Decades of living dangerously in terms of water resource management, urban planning, waste and wastewater management, is taking its toll on the megacity. This is made possible by poor city planning, environmental and conservation policies, enforcement and practices.” What are the chances that Indonesia’s incompetence won’t be incompetent at managing the environmental impact of their next capital city?
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  Zero, but things will eventually adjust out of necessity.
- jpatokal 7y ago
  I recently had the chance to visit Jakarta after over 10 years away, and they're finally starting to get some things right. The recent emphasis on public transport is particularly promising: the first MRT (subway) line finally opened this year, there's a lot more on the way, they've beefed up the commuter railways, Jakarta airport T3 is head and shoulders above the old ones, etc. Some bloggage on the topic: https://driftingclouds.net/2019/03/28/jakarta-by-rail-mrt-opening-week/ https://driftingclouds.net/2019/03/28/jakarta-by-rail-mrt-op... https://driftingclouds.net/2019/04/01/jakarta-by-rail-airport-rail-link-and-skytrain/ https://driftingclouds.net/2019/04/01/jakarta-by-rail-airpor... Much of the credit goes to recently re-elected president Jokowi, who's the least incompetent leader Indonesia has had in a while (possibly ever/since independence?) and who's also the prime mover behind the new capital idea. That said, I'm not entirely sold on the idea myself, the track record of other SE Asian countries trying this -- Putrajaya in Malaysia and particularly Pyongyang-in-the-tropics aka Naypyidaw in Myanmar -- are not encouraging. http://www.thebohemianblog.com/2017/07/naypyidaw-myanmar-ghost-city-capital.html http://www.thebohemianblog.com/2017/07/naypyidaw-myanmar-gho...
  - mango7283 7y ago
    Yeah, and Putrajaya barely qualifies as moving the capital, given it's still part of KL's metropolitan area.
- 7y ago
bzelip 7y ago
I don’t have any links, but a large area around Johannesburg, South Africa was dewatered as a result of diamond mining.
- patman 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure that would be gold mining.

> Jakarta's problems are largely man-made – the area's large population has extracted so much groundwater that it has impacted the ground levels, and many surface water resources are polluted.

walrus01 7y ago

Not causing sinking, but if we drain this, agriculture in the US will be severely impacted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer " Since the 1940s, pumping from the Ogallala has drawn the aquifer down more than 300 feet (90 m) in some areas. Producers have taken steps to reduce their reliance on irrigated water. Streamlined operations allow them to produce significantly greater yield using roughly the same amount of water needed four decades ago. Still, losses to the aquifer between 2001 and 2011 equated to a third of its cumulative depletion during the entire 20th century. The Ogallala is recharged primarily by rainwater, but only about one inch of precipitation actually reaches the aquifer annually. Rainfall in most of the Texas High Plains is minimal, evaporation is high, and infiltration rates are slow.[24] "

SapporoChris 7y ago
From the listed article, a 9% draw down since extraction started in 1950. I consider this a concern and actions should be taken. But it seems like there is plenty of time to take action, and there will be lots of continuing warning signs such as wells that need deepening. I'm for taking action, but I think global warming is a larger problem. Oh hey, global warming will probably exacerbate the Ogallal situation! Also, in evil mind frame here, if USA loses out on cheap food, perhaps it will deal a blow to the obesity epidemic.
- munk-a 7y ago
  Currently in the US, 8% of grown corn is the stuff we eat, and 11% is devoted to sugar production (and some other stuff) - with Ethanol production and livestock feed accounting for 60% of the total usage[1]. If there were droughts we'd probably see Ethanol become price inefficient first, then livestock, and it's that 11% of corn that gets transformed into sweeteners that is really driving obesity in the modern world. The other issue that seems to be related to obesity is the weird chemicals we're imbibing - both knowingly through food consumption[2] and unknowingly by their entrance into the food chain[3]. The USA really needs to get it's act together about finding out wtf is poisoning all of the people there and fix that. I'd love it if they could get their stuff together about fighting obesity - there is something fundamentally wrong with the western diet that is more prevalent in cheap foods and making some greedy people a quick buck while setting society up for a really heavy cost in the near future. A recent decrease in activity certainly contributes, but it's more than just a lack of exercise. [1] Corn usage... leaning on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_States#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_... [2] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325034.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325034.php [3] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3mzve/human-waste-is-contaminating-australian-wildlife-with-more-than-60-pharmaceuticals https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3mzve/human-wast...
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  I'm not sure that cheap food, by itself, causes obesity. I suspect that it's more like flavor-enhanced food, and food that has calories but little other nutrition, cause obesity.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Subsidence is a widespread problem in the US: Subsidence is a global problem and, in the United States, more than 17,000 square miles in 45 States, an area roughly the size of New Hampshire and Vermont combined, have been directly affected by subsidence. https://water.usgs.gov/ogw/subsidence.html https://water.usgs.gov/ogw/subsidence.html I can't readily find anything stating outright that there is subsidence associated with the Ogallala Aquifer, but my recollection is I have seen such in the past.

makerofspoons 7y ago

A similar disaster is playing out in Mexico City: https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647180486/mexico-city-thirsty-and-sinking https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647180486/mexico-city-thirsty...

owyn 7y ago
A similar disaster is playing out in Bangalore: https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/bengaluru-is-facing-a-terrible-water-crisis-and-only-tanker-mafias-are-gaining_in_5c8b45e1e4b0db7da9f1a154 https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/bengaluru-is-facing-a-te...
- namirez 7y ago
  A similar disaster is playing out in Tehran: https://www.livescience.com/64235-tehran-is-sinking.html https://www.livescience.com/64235-tehran-is-sinking.html
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - walrus01 7y ago
    And the "water tanker mafia" in Karachi: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/09/10/645525392/for-karachis-water-mafia-stolen-h20-is-a-lucrative-business https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/09/10/6455253...
    - theNJR 7y ago
      Which inspired a VR game I made. https://store.steampowered.com/app/510930/Thirst_VR/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/510930/Thirst_VR/
      - walrus01 7y ago
        Have you read this? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23209924-the-water-knife https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23209924-the-water-knife

siruncledrew 7y ago

> “Decades of living dangerously in terms of water resource management, urban planning, waste and wastewater management, is taking its toll on the megacity. This is made possible by poor city planning, environmental and conservation policies, enforcement and practices.” What are the chances that Indonesia’s incompetence won’t be incompetent at managing the environmental impact of their next capital city?

thaumasiotes 7y ago
Zero, but things will eventually adjust out of necessity.
jpatokal 7y ago
I recently had the chance to visit Jakarta after over 10 years away, and they're finally starting to get some things right. The recent emphasis on public transport is particularly promising: the first MRT (subway) line finally opened this year, there's a lot more on the way, they've beefed up the commuter railways, Jakarta airport T3 is head and shoulders above the old ones, etc. Some bloggage on the topic: https://driftingclouds.net/2019/03/28/jakarta-by-rail-mrt-opening-week/ https://driftingclouds.net/2019/03/28/jakarta-by-rail-mrt-op... https://driftingclouds.net/2019/04/01/jakarta-by-rail-airport-rail-link-and-skytrain/ https://driftingclouds.net/2019/04/01/jakarta-by-rail-airpor... Much of the credit goes to recently re-elected president Jokowi, who's the least incompetent leader Indonesia has had in a while (possibly ever/since independence?) and who's also the prime mover behind the new capital idea. That said, I'm not entirely sold on the idea myself, the track record of other SE Asian countries trying this -- Putrajaya in Malaysia and particularly Pyongyang-in-the-tropics aka Naypyidaw in Myanmar -- are not encouraging. http://www.thebohemianblog.com/2017/07/naypyidaw-myanmar-ghost-city-capital.html http://www.thebohemianblog.com/2017/07/naypyidaw-myanmar-gho...
- mango7283 7y ago
  Yeah, and Putrajaya barely qualifies as moving the capital, given it's still part of KL's metropolitan area.
7y ago

bzelip 7y ago

I don’t have any links, but a large area around Johannesburg, South Africa was dewatered as a result of diamond mining.

patman 7y ago
I'm pretty sure that would be gold mining.