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Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life, hooked up to a machine that sucks your calves food out of you, while they are dragged aw

Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life, hooked up to a machine that sucks your calves food out of you, while they are dragged away for slaughter or to join the crew. After a handful lactations, or if you don’t produce enough, or you’re sick too often, you’re slaughtered too. Most of the time you’re indoors walking around in your own feces. Sound like a good life to you?

simion314 7y ago
>Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life Can you explain this to me, I only know how this is on farms, the cow will be in heat 1 time a year, I mean it is natural to the cows, you can't impregnate them if they are not in heat and if it was a wild cow she would still get as pregnant as often. But maybe is the industrial way something else is happening? Let me know so I understand your point
- Forbo 7y ago
  You most certainly can impregnate a cow that is unwilling. The following article is definitely biased, but the point still stands that the animals aren't exactly consenting to this. https://theirturn.net/2016/06/15/2016061420160613the-rape-rack/ https://theirturn.net/2016/06/15/2016061420160613the-rape-ra...
  - simion314 7y ago
    I know about artificial insemination, but you can't do it when you want, it only works when the cow is in heat. When a cow is in heat she behaves differently (she starts ridding other cows) so the farmer notices this and calls a veterinarian to inseminate the cow or bring a bull. I was asking if they can force the cow to be in heat. change the ovulation cycle or whatever explains the thing I quoted.
    - Forbo 7y ago
      Typically they're looking for a bull to do that job. Just because a woman is ovulating doesn't mean that she wants some other species to restrain her, anally violate her, and forcibly impregnate her. This argument only works if you believe that animals are worthy of empathy, but many would rather live with the cognitive dissonance that animals are incapable of emotions than go through the hassle of changing their diet.
      - simion314 7y ago
        This are cows not humans, my experience is with real world cows that are raised outside on fields,when the cow is in heat she will start ridding other cows(yes cows become lesbians and "rape" other cows, I know your mind is blown now), a bull will smell her from a distance and will come to the cow, the cow is always wiling because is her nature, she is not a thinking human it is all instinct. At my grandparents farm artificial insemination was used when there was no old enough bull present(this is on small villages in Romania, and to make you even more outraged animals like horses are still used for work).
        Forbo 7y ago
        Again, just because they are cows does not mean they do not have emotions. These animals are more than capable of feeling happiness, sadness, fear, pain, etc. Modern industrial scale agriculture is what we are talking about here, not one-off mom and pop farms that represent a drop in the bucket of dairy production.
        simion314 7y ago
        This is why I ask in my original comment that I replied if the industrial farms do something different to make the cows get pregnant faster, if yes I want to inform myself (so if you know what terms to search about, procedure names etc but don't make me search something that does not exist). About animals having feelings, I know very well, just that when nature says is time to get pregnant the cow is just an animal in heat(it is dangerous even and you must be careful around them)
- tomstoms 7y ago
  Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Keep in mind also that dairy cattle are bred for optimal milk production which carry a lot of problems like mastitis, birth complications etc. and yes most dairy cattle are artificially inseminated.
  - simion314 7y ago
    >Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Please link me to facts >Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Please link , because I can't believe that a wild animal is in heat but decides not to follow the instincts, my cat got pregnant so freaking young I was afraid she would die. The animals do not decide this but if you have links to scientific paper where healthy individuals do not follow the natural instinct I want to see it. I am not arguing for a camp or other, I want to clear up things when someone tells me things that at first glance seems as fake things people in cities that never seen an animal imagined. But I will change my mind if you provide the facts to read for myself.
    - tomstoms 7y ago
      Not sure what qualifies fact, as there are not a lot of wild bovine species left in world. As for choosing not to mate, I think there are studies showing that animals in captivity regularly refuse to mate. After all, in the wild there’s competition. It’s also possible and not uncommon to alter feeding regimes to stimulate heifers to reach puberty faster than that which would happen in the wild. The comment was meant to touch upon the question of whether dairy cattle live happy lifes. It’s hard to argue that they do, although it’s also hard to prove that they don’t. From an ethical humanitarian point of view which I think is totally appropriate when deciding what to eat, one can easily empathize with these animals by simple observation and a sprinkle of common sense. Whatever the facts are, dictated by whatever authority, may or may not make a huge difference. I don’t think it matters so long as animals are impregnated forcefully by humans through artificial insemination while in captivity, there’s so little resemblance to the wild that any comparison is quite pointless. Edit: I have education in agriculture and have both visited and worked at several dairy farms.

simion314 7y ago

>Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life Can you explain this to me, I only know how this is on farms, the cow will be in heat 1 time a year, I mean it is natural to the cows, you can't impregnate them if they are not in heat and if it was a wild cow she would still get as pregnant as often. But maybe is the industrial way something else is happening? Let me know so I understand your point

Forbo 7y ago
You most certainly can impregnate a cow that is unwilling. The following article is definitely biased, but the point still stands that the animals aren't exactly consenting to this. https://theirturn.net/2016/06/15/2016061420160613the-rape-rack/ https://theirturn.net/2016/06/15/2016061420160613the-rape-ra...
- simion314 7y ago
  I know about artificial insemination, but you can't do it when you want, it only works when the cow is in heat. When a cow is in heat she behaves differently (she starts ridding other cows) so the farmer notices this and calls a veterinarian to inseminate the cow or bring a bull. I was asking if they can force the cow to be in heat. change the ovulation cycle or whatever explains the thing I quoted.
  - Forbo 7y ago
    Typically they're looking for a bull to do that job. Just because a woman is ovulating doesn't mean that she wants some other species to restrain her, anally violate her, and forcibly impregnate her. This argument only works if you believe that animals are worthy of empathy, but many would rather live with the cognitive dissonance that animals are incapable of emotions than go through the hassle of changing their diet.
    - simion314 7y ago
      This are cows not humans, my experience is with real world cows that are raised outside on fields,when the cow is in heat she will start ridding other cows(yes cows become lesbians and "rape" other cows, I know your mind is blown now), a bull will smell her from a distance and will come to the cow, the cow is always wiling because is her nature, she is not a thinking human it is all instinct. At my grandparents farm artificial insemination was used when there was no old enough bull present(this is on small villages in Romania, and to make you even more outraged animals like horses are still used for work).
      - Forbo 7y ago
        Again, just because they are cows does not mean they do not have emotions. These animals are more than capable of feeling happiness, sadness, fear, pain, etc. Modern industrial scale agriculture is what we are talking about here, not one-off mom and pop farms that represent a drop in the bucket of dairy production.
        simion314 7y ago
        This is why I ask in my original comment that I replied if the industrial farms do something different to make the cows get pregnant faster, if yes I want to inform myself (so if you know what terms to search about, procedure names etc but don't make me search something that does not exist). About animals having feelings, I know very well, just that when nature says is time to get pregnant the cow is just an animal in heat(it is dangerous even and you must be careful around them)
tomstoms 7y ago
Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Keep in mind also that dairy cattle are bred for optimal milk production which carry a lot of problems like mastitis, birth complications etc. and yes most dairy cattle are artificially inseminated.
- simion314 7y ago
  >Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Please link me to facts >Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Please link , because I can't believe that a wild animal is in heat but decides not to follow the instincts, my cat got pregnant so freaking young I was afraid she would die. The animals do not decide this but if you have links to scientific paper where healthy individuals do not follow the natural instinct I want to see it. I am not arguing for a camp or other, I want to clear up things when someone tells me things that at first glance seems as fake things people in cities that never seen an animal imagined. But I will change my mind if you provide the facts to read for myself.
  - tomstoms 7y ago
    Not sure what qualifies fact, as there are not a lot of wild bovine species left in world. As for choosing not to mate, I think there are studies showing that animals in captivity regularly refuse to mate. After all, in the wild there’s competition. It’s also possible and not uncommon to alter feeding regimes to stimulate heifers to reach puberty faster than that which would happen in the wild. The comment was meant to touch upon the question of whether dairy cattle live happy lifes. It’s hard to argue that they do, although it’s also hard to prove that they don’t. From an ethical humanitarian point of view which I think is totally appropriate when deciding what to eat, one can easily empathize with these animals by simple observation and a sprinkle of common sense. Whatever the facts are, dictated by whatever authority, may or may not make a huge difference. I don’t think it matters so long as animals are impregnated forcefully by humans through artificial insemination while in captivity, there’s so little resemblance to the wild that any comparison is quite pointless. Edit: I have education in agriculture and have both visited and worked at several dairy farms.