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Isn't it part of the problem that left-leaning people consider themselves to have good intentions but consider right-leaning people to have bad intentions? Ever

Isn't it part of the problem that left-leaning people consider themselves to have good intentions but consider right-leaning people to have bad intentions? Everyone is the hero of their own narrative. While I would likely be more aligned politically with you than not, I also understand that there are many on the left that bring an aggression and intolerance to the policing of ideas and discussion that seems of little benefit to the world. It seems to me we need more advocacy for self-reflection and less for people's individual belief systems.

asveikau 7y ago
> Isn't it part of the problem that left-leaning people consider themselves to have good intentions but consider right-leaning people to have bad intentions? Perhaps. But I didn't say that, and I'm not arguing that point. I read your point as a direct consequence of what I've written, actually. But if I may argue that point for a bit, for the sake of argument, a lot of the "SJW" stuff that riles people up is to say that a protected class or minority should be allowed to exist, and people do react to that with what amounts to "your existence is offensive to me". Which is one reason I immediately jump into: why is the SJW offensive to people? Is it that the anti-SJW has some kind of hangup? Often, yes. Just let them be. And they will let you be too. I know this is an unpopular opinion on HN and so I'm losing karma over it. OK.
- MrScruff 7y ago
  >Just let them be. And they will let you be too. I think this is the point of contention. I don't think the type of person I'm describing will 'let you be' if you make an argument that falls outside their worldview. And the tone of the resulting debate is more often than not fairly toxic. The result is just more division.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    Sounds a lot like paranoia to me. What do you think will happen?
    - MrScruff 7y ago
      I'm speaking from experience. What happens is that strength of feeling is used as a substitute for quality of argument. Those that dissent are accused of insensitivity or worse. Perhaps you've never had this experience but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
      - asveikau 7y ago
        Ok. So if I may ask, what happened to you? If you don't want to say, that's fine. I have had many kinds of ludicrous mistreatment or misunderstandings in life, but I try to not extrapolate them to all humanity, or even everyone expressing a political view, or even expect that they recur from the same set of characters.
- belorn 7y ago
  > a lot of the "SJW" stuff that riles people up is to say that a protected class or minority should be allowed to exist I have tested this several time on HN, face to face and other places. I do this by suggesting that it should be made in to a generic law. For example, when Muslim clothing is debated in the news someone from the "SJW" political side will eventually state that people should be free to decide what they wear. By forbidding burqa at work or public places, they say we deny that minority to exist. I bring up that I know a nudist who would very much like the freedom to decide what they wear, and who very much is denied to exist as a nudist at work and public places. By turning what is advocated into a generic law that give everyone the same freedom, suddenly the interest from SJW drops.
- manigandham 7y ago
  >> a protected class or minority should be allowed to exist This is the default view of 99.9% of people. If you want to battle the 0.1% of people who feel otherwise then fine but trying to say that is the majority position of everyone who doesn't think like you is the problem. Similarly, using the term "exist" is uselessly hyperbolic. Communicating like this is usually not in good-faith, it's just antagonistic and unproductive.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    Sounds a lot like you got offended because you don't like the protected classes. If this were not the case, I don't think you would have bothered with such a huffy, indignant response.

asveikau 7y ago

> Isn't it part of the problem that left-leaning people consider themselves to have good intentions but consider right-leaning people to have bad intentions? Perhaps. But I didn't say that, and I'm not arguing that point. I read your point as a direct consequence of what I've written, actually. But if I may argue that point for a bit, for the sake of argument, a lot of the "SJW" stuff that riles people up is to say that a protected class or minority should be allowed to exist, and people do react to that with what amounts to "your existence is offensive to me". Which is one reason I immediately jump into: why is the SJW offensive to people? Is it that the anti-SJW has some kind of hangup? Often, yes. Just let them be. And they will let you be too. I know this is an unpopular opinion on HN and so I'm losing karma over it. OK.

MrScruff 7y ago
>Just let them be. And they will let you be too. I think this is the point of contention. I don't think the type of person I'm describing will 'let you be' if you make an argument that falls outside their worldview. And the tone of the resulting debate is more often than not fairly toxic. The result is just more division.
- asveikau 7y ago
  Sounds a lot like paranoia to me. What do you think will happen?
  - MrScruff 7y ago
    I'm speaking from experience. What happens is that strength of feeling is used as a substitute for quality of argument. Those that dissent are accused of insensitivity or worse. Perhaps you've never had this experience but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      Ok. So if I may ask, what happened to you? If you don't want to say, that's fine. I have had many kinds of ludicrous mistreatment or misunderstandings in life, but I try to not extrapolate them to all humanity, or even everyone expressing a political view, or even expect that they recur from the same set of characters.
belorn 7y ago
> a lot of the "SJW" stuff that riles people up is to say that a protected class or minority should be allowed to exist I have tested this several time on HN, face to face and other places. I do this by suggesting that it should be made in to a generic law. For example, when Muslim clothing is debated in the news someone from the "SJW" political side will eventually state that people should be free to decide what they wear. By forbidding burqa at work or public places, they say we deny that minority to exist. I bring up that I know a nudist who would very much like the freedom to decide what they wear, and who very much is denied to exist as a nudist at work and public places. By turning what is advocated into a generic law that give everyone the same freedom, suddenly the interest from SJW drops.
manigandham 7y ago
>> a protected class or minority should be allowed to exist This is the default view of 99.9% of people. If you want to battle the 0.1% of people who feel otherwise then fine but trying to say that is the majority position of everyone who doesn't think like you is the problem. Similarly, using the term "exist" is uselessly hyperbolic. Communicating like this is usually not in good-faith, it's just antagonistic and unproductive.
- asveikau 7y ago
  Sounds a lot like you got offended because you don't like the protected classes. If this were not the case, I don't think you would have bothered with such a huffy, indignant response.