3 ms·

For this to hold true you need to buy into the traditional gender stereotypes

mises 7y ago
The fact that you disagree with "traditional" gender stereotypes does not mean they have not held true for large parts of history. The reasons for this are debatable, as are its merits, but it is still a part of history.
- okmokmz 7y ago
  >The fact that you disagree with "traditional" gender stereotypes does not mean they have not held true for large parts of history I didn't take any position.... I simply said that for that argument to hold true you need to believe traditional gender stereotypes. Of course, as with every topic on this site recently, someone downvoted after being confronted with an opinion that made them uncomfortable or didn't exactly align with their own despite it being relevant
  - mises2 7y ago
    Didn't downvote. You were positioning it as if it were a rebuttal to the above statement. You also didn't express a full opinion on whether such stereotypes are good or bad, you simply stated that they were a precondition to the statement to which you were replying. I don't want to debate this too much, as I have been admonished to "please not start generic flamewars", but would appreciate the opportunity to debate. Keybase in profile; feel free to reach out.
- skybrian 7y ago
  But if you actually read history, sometimes the stereotypes were the opposite of what they are today. Traditional thinking as we know it now was often invented quite recently. From what I've read, riding fast horses was much more popular with men before cars.
  - mises 7y ago
    > sometimes the stereotypes were the opposite of what they are today. Correct, and this is the reason for which I qualified my statement. They do, however, apply to the section where western "horse culture" as is being debated arose. I commented on some of this already, and don't want to pollute the comments too much. Link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19780759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19780759
freeflight 7y ago
Really depends on how you define "stereotype". It's my understanding that these "gendered differences" have been shown to be more than mere "stereotypes" in a number of different studies across different fields. That's not to say there's "male brain" and a "female brain", but it very strongly hints at gender influencing preferences which are not entirely based on socialization but also involves its fair share of biological factors. If this wouldn't be the case, how are trans-people be able to feel like "being stuck in the wrong body" if all brains and consciousness are alike? If there are zero biological factors at play, then that feeling of trans-people would be entirely imagined on their end, wouldn't it?

The fact that you disagree with "traditional" gender stereotypes does not mean they have not held true for large parts of history. The reasons for this are debatable, as are its merits, but it is still a part of history.

okmokmz 7y ago
>The fact that you disagree with "traditional" gender stereotypes does not mean they have not held true for large parts of history I didn't take any position.... I simply said that for that argument to hold true you need to believe traditional gender stereotypes. Of course, as with every topic on this site recently, someone downvoted after being confronted with an opinion that made them uncomfortable or didn't exactly align with their own despite it being relevant
- mises2 7y ago
  Didn't downvote. You were positioning it as if it were a rebuttal to the above statement. You also didn't express a full opinion on whether such stereotypes are good or bad, you simply stated that they were a precondition to the statement to which you were replying. I don't want to debate this too much, as I have been admonished to "please not start generic flamewars", but would appreciate the opportunity to debate. Keybase in profile; feel free to reach out.
skybrian 7y ago
But if you actually read history, sometimes the stereotypes were the opposite of what they are today. Traditional thinking as we know it now was often invented quite recently. From what I've read, riding fast horses was much more popular with men before cars.
- mises 7y ago
  > sometimes the stereotypes were the opposite of what they are today. Correct, and this is the reason for which I qualified my statement. They do, however, apply to the section where western "horse culture" as is being debated arose. I commented on some of this already, and don't want to pollute the comments too much. Link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19780759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19780759

freeflight 7y ago

Really depends on how you define "stereotype". It's my understanding that these "gendered differences" have been shown to be more than mere "stereotypes" in a number of different studies across different fields. That's not to say there's "male brain" and a "female brain", but it very strongly hints at gender influencing preferences which are not entirely based on socialization but also involves its fair share of biological factors. If this wouldn't be the case, how are trans-people be able to feel like "being stuck in the wrong body" if all brains and consciousness are alike? If there are zero biological factors at play, then that feeling of trans-people would be entirely imagined on their end, wouldn't it?