4 ms·

Seriously what the fuck happened to Notch. I don't blame Microsoft from excluding him at all.

by meddlepal 8y ago

OedipusRex 8y ago
I think it's a side effect of becoming so well known in a short amount of time.
- xsmasher 8y ago
  It's a side effect of success and attitude/pov not being correlated.
malvosenior 8y ago
He's self-made and not afraid to express his opinions even if they aren't politically correct. People like him should be applauded as they are increasingly rare in today's society.
- kevincrane 8y ago
  Alternatively, we could not applaud racist assholes.
  - NotAnEconomist 8y ago
    We are in the middle of applauding the Microsoft CEO for supporting racism against whites and Asians. I don't think that works as a theory for how to respond to this, unless we're just going to dislike everyone.
  - yters 8y ago
    All I've found regarding notch's racist comments is this GQ article: https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets I would probably not interpret his comments as racist, at least not in an obvious definition of the word. I've also read his twitter feed a fair amount, and have not spotted any clearly racist statements. I've also heard he is anti semitic, but haven't seen any citations. As for the links in the parent article, saying transwomen aren't women sounds like an opinion, not hate speech. Calling women the c word is very rude, and That could be grounds for disinviting notch. But if so, I hope MS is consistent and bars people who call men the d word, african americans the n word, and so on. Believing in conspiracy theories seems pretty innocuous. Hardly grounds for disinviting someone, unless again MS is consistent.
    - beart 8y ago
      > Believing in conspiracy theories seems pretty innocuous. Sorry - Aren't we in the middle of a measles outbreak (U.S.A)?
      - mullen 8y ago
        Don't forget the guy who went to Pizza Restaurant and shot the gun into the ceiling because he said there were kid sex dungeons.
      - yters 7y ago
        How is this related to conspiracy theories?
        beart 7y ago
        Misinformation driven in part by conspiracy theories has increased the spread of measles back into areas where it was thought to be eradicated. > An unfounded fear of vaccines has spread around the world in recent years, with childhood vaccination rates reportedly declining in several countries as a result. Nothing in the belief system of Orthodox Jews makes them any more likely to oppose vaccines, and several Orthodox rabbinical organizations have called on parents to vaccinate their children. But Hasidic Jews are prey to the same misinformation that has affected others, and some ultra-Orthodox rabbis have come out against vaccines. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/nyregion/measles-jewish-community.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/nyregion/measles-jewish-c...
        yters 7y ago
        The article is paywalled. So, there is a documented decline in vaccination, but is there a documented link between that and spread of measles?
    - kevincrane 8y ago
      https://twitter.com/notch/status/22330335379333120 https://twitter.com/notch/status/22330335379333120
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- rcxdude 8y ago
  Do you think the reasons most people don't express opinions like the ones notch has expressed recently is due to a fear of backlash over being considered 'un-PC' as opposed to not actually holding those opinions? This rhetoric plays into a common theme among extremists which is quite dangerous: "Everyone actually thinks the same way I do, they are just afraid to say it".
  - NotAnEconomist 8y ago
    > Do you think the reasons most people don't express opinions like the ones notch has expressed recently is due to a fear of backlash over being considered 'un-PC' as opposed to not actually holding those opinions? Repeated surveys show that the identitarian left accounts for about 8% of the population, and that their views are over represented in media, while people are genuinely afraid of being publicly lynched for saying the wrong thing. The entire #walkaway movement started because of that.
    - apta 8y ago
      And you're being downvoted, ironically (or maybe not ironically).
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    Yes, I know many, many people who don't express their non-far left opinions for fear of losing their jobs. They are not extremists, quite the opposite, they view the current cultural zeitgeist of tech companies to be extremist but can't speak up against it.
  - temp1831 8y ago
    Look at the character assassinations that have happened in the media recently. Jordan Peterson is an excellent example, not only because so many left-leaning journalists have tried to defame him by deliberately misinterpreting what he says, but also because he has successfully defended himself against this attempted assassination. Peterson has a good reason to fear the backlash you describe, but he has a stronger backbone than all of his attackers. The current zeitgeist in the media is that past some fuzzy line, it is acceptable to defame somebody for having an opinion that is not politically correct. It is possible to cross this line by expressing facts or opinions that are entirely reasonable. The fear of backlash is real.
- snuxoll 8y ago
  Anyone can express their beliefs within reason (the US courts have put some limits on what falls under the first amendment, of course) - you just can’t be surprised when there are consequences for your public expression. Notch obviously doesn’t care what people think of him anymore, that’s not something I personally feel we should be applauding. It’s one thing if you’re using “fuck you money” to speak against the status quo, it’s another to just be a bigoted jerk on Twitter.
- belltaco 8y ago
  Saying "Pizzagate is real" or that Q is legit isn't an opinion, it's making up false facts. And that statement has been used to push Pizzagate among the masses.
  - 99_00 8y ago
    I haven't been following him and his comments. And I agree it's important to call out false statements. But believing in and promoting demonstratively false and damaging ideas is much more common than people realize. For example, many good people who are more important and educated than game developer falsely believe that President Trump said that white nationalists and neo-nazis are fine people.
    - pwinnski 8y ago
      Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --" Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26...
      - 99_00 8y ago
        Does that prove something? I'm not sure what your point is. Here is the rest of the exchange where Trump explicitly says he isn't talking about neo-nazis and white nationalists when he says 'fine people' and explicitly condemns neo-Nazis and white nationalists from the article you linked to. Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same." Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?" Reporter: "I do love Thomas Jefferson." Trump: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue? "So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE NEO-NAZIS AND THE WHITE NATIONALISTS -- BECAUSE THEY SHOULD BE CONDEMNED TOTALLY But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
- mcphage 8y ago
  > He's self-made Well, Microsoft made him a billionaire—and they're also the ones choosing not to include him in the Minecraft event.
nailer 8y ago
(Replying to this comment as it's at the top, though the poster should read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) From the links in this article: he called Zoe Quinn a c-word (which many people have), tweeted "It's ok to be white." (which it is), and says he doesn't regard biological men who identify as women are women (which is a fairly common belief). QAnon is a weird conspiracy theory, but the rest don't strike me as particularly odd. It's probably worth having a Code of Conduct which requires explicit hard left belief systems if you're going to exclude people with mainstream beliefs.
- jayess 8y ago
  It's the new puritanical movement.
- belltaco 8y ago
  >Zoe Quinn a c-word (which many people have) Examples? Sounds like Microsoft won't invite those 'many people' too then. His statements on Pizzagate being real and QAnon being legit have been used to push those theories among the alt-right and white supremacists. >It's probably worth having a Code of Conduct which requires explicit hard left belief systems if you're going to exclude people with mainstream beliefs. Pizzagate and QAnon theories are the opposite of mainstream beliefs. Also companies can and should go against mainstream beliefs if those beliefs are bigoted and racist. Otherwise slavery would never have been abolished and the civil rights act never enacted. Or women would never have gotten the right to vote. All those were against the mainstream beliefs at some point. Companies doing these things going against the mainstream can actually hurt them in the marketplace, which is more the reason to applaud them for taking the risk.
  - nailer 8y ago
    You can easily research Quinn's interactions with others online, including other left wing, trans, feminist, and activist figures. Pizzagate is indeed a fringe belief, as the comment you're replying to already mentions, but should anyone who believes conspiracy theories be excluded? What about left wing ones like Russiagate? Notch is not racist. If you think it's not OK to be white you may wish to look for racism closer to home.

Seriously what the fuck happened to Notch. I don't blame Microsoft from excluding him at all.

OedipusRex 8y ago

I think it's a side effect of becoming so well known in a short amount of time.

xsmasher 8y ago
It's a side effect of success and attitude/pov not being correlated.

malvosenior 8y ago

He's self-made and not afraid to express his opinions even if they aren't politically correct. People like him should be applauded as they are increasingly rare in today's society.

kevincrane 8y ago
Alternatively, we could not applaud racist assholes.
- NotAnEconomist 8y ago
  We are in the middle of applauding the Microsoft CEO for supporting racism against whites and Asians. I don't think that works as a theory for how to respond to this, unless we're just going to dislike everyone.
- yters 8y ago
  All I've found regarding notch's racist comments is this GQ article: https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets I would probably not interpret his comments as racist, at least not in an obvious definition of the word. I've also read his twitter feed a fair amount, and have not spotted any clearly racist statements. I've also heard he is anti semitic, but haven't seen any citations. As for the links in the parent article, saying transwomen aren't women sounds like an opinion, not hate speech. Calling women the c word is very rude, and That could be grounds for disinviting notch. But if so, I hope MS is consistent and bars people who call men the d word, african americans the n word, and so on. Believing in conspiracy theories seems pretty innocuous. Hardly grounds for disinviting someone, unless again MS is consistent.
  - beart 8y ago
    > Believing in conspiracy theories seems pretty innocuous. Sorry - Aren't we in the middle of a measles outbreak (U.S.A)?
    - mullen 8y ago
      Don't forget the guy who went to Pizza Restaurant and shot the gun into the ceiling because he said there were kid sex dungeons.
    - yters 7y ago
      How is this related to conspiracy theories?
      - beart 7y ago
        Misinformation driven in part by conspiracy theories has increased the spread of measles back into areas where it was thought to be eradicated. > An unfounded fear of vaccines has spread around the world in recent years, with childhood vaccination rates reportedly declining in several countries as a result. Nothing in the belief system of Orthodox Jews makes them any more likely to oppose vaccines, and several Orthodox rabbinical organizations have called on parents to vaccinate their children. But Hasidic Jews are prey to the same misinformation that has affected others, and some ultra-Orthodox rabbis have come out against vaccines. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/nyregion/measles-jewish-community.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/nyregion/measles-jewish-c...
        yters 7y ago
        The article is paywalled. So, there is a documented decline in vaccination, but is there a documented link between that and spread of measles?
  - kevincrane 8y ago
    https://twitter.com/notch/status/22330335379333120 https://twitter.com/notch/status/22330335379333120
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
rcxdude 8y ago
Do you think the reasons most people don't express opinions like the ones notch has expressed recently is due to a fear of backlash over being considered 'un-PC' as opposed to not actually holding those opinions? This rhetoric plays into a common theme among extremists which is quite dangerous: "Everyone actually thinks the same way I do, they are just afraid to say it".
- NotAnEconomist 8y ago
  > Do you think the reasons most people don't express opinions like the ones notch has expressed recently is due to a fear of backlash over being considered 'un-PC' as opposed to not actually holding those opinions? Repeated surveys show that the identitarian left accounts for about 8% of the population, and that their views are over represented in media, while people are genuinely afraid of being publicly lynched for saying the wrong thing. The entire #walkaway movement started because of that.
  - apta 8y ago
    And you're being downvoted, ironically (or maybe not ironically).
- malvosenior 8y ago
  Yes, I know many, many people who don't express their non-far left opinions for fear of losing their jobs. They are not extremists, quite the opposite, they view the current cultural zeitgeist of tech companies to be extremist but can't speak up against it.
- temp1831 8y ago
  Look at the character assassinations that have happened in the media recently. Jordan Peterson is an excellent example, not only because so many left-leaning journalists have tried to defame him by deliberately misinterpreting what he says, but also because he has successfully defended himself against this attempted assassination. Peterson has a good reason to fear the backlash you describe, but he has a stronger backbone than all of his attackers. The current zeitgeist in the media is that past some fuzzy line, it is acceptable to defame somebody for having an opinion that is not politically correct. It is possible to cross this line by expressing facts or opinions that are entirely reasonable. The fear of backlash is real.
snuxoll 8y ago
Anyone can express their beliefs within reason (the US courts have put some limits on what falls under the first amendment, of course) - you just can’t be surprised when there are consequences for your public expression. Notch obviously doesn’t care what people think of him anymore, that’s not something I personally feel we should be applauding. It’s one thing if you’re using “fuck you money” to speak against the status quo, it’s another to just be a bigoted jerk on Twitter.
belltaco 8y ago
Saying "Pizzagate is real" or that Q is legit isn't an opinion, it's making up false facts. And that statement has been used to push Pizzagate among the masses.
- 99_00 8y ago
  I haven't been following him and his comments. And I agree it's important to call out false statements. But believing in and promoting demonstratively false and damaging ideas is much more common than people realize. For example, many good people who are more important and educated than game developer falsely believe that President Trump said that white nationalists and neo-nazis are fine people.
  - pwinnski 8y ago
    Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --" Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26...
    - 99_00 8y ago
      Does that prove something? I'm not sure what your point is. Here is the rest of the exchange where Trump explicitly says he isn't talking about neo-nazis and white nationalists when he says 'fine people' and explicitly condemns neo-Nazis and white nationalists from the article you linked to. Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same." Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?" Reporter: "I do love Thomas Jefferson." Trump: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue? "So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE NEO-NAZIS AND THE WHITE NATIONALISTS -- BECAUSE THEY SHOULD BE CONDEMNED TOTALLY But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
mcphage 8y ago
> He's self-made Well, Microsoft made him a billionaire—and they're also the ones choosing not to include him in the Minecraft event.

nailer 8y ago

(Replying to this comment as it's at the top, though the poster should read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) From the links in this article: he called Zoe Quinn a c-word (which many people have), tweeted "It's ok to be white." (which it is), and says he doesn't regard biological men who identify as women are women (which is a fairly common belief). QAnon is a weird conspiracy theory, but the rest don't strike me as particularly odd. It's probably worth having a Code of Conduct which requires explicit hard left belief systems if you're going to exclude people with mainstream beliefs.

jayess 8y ago
It's the new puritanical movement.
belltaco 8y ago
>Zoe Quinn a c-word (which many people have) Examples? Sounds like Microsoft won't invite those 'many people' too then. His statements on Pizzagate being real and QAnon being legit have been used to push those theories among the alt-right and white supremacists. >It's probably worth having a Code of Conduct which requires explicit hard left belief systems if you're going to exclude people with mainstream beliefs. Pizzagate and QAnon theories are the opposite of mainstream beliefs. Also companies can and should go against mainstream beliefs if those beliefs are bigoted and racist. Otherwise slavery would never have been abolished and the civil rights act never enacted. Or women would never have gotten the right to vote. All those were against the mainstream beliefs at some point. Companies doing these things going against the mainstream can actually hurt them in the marketplace, which is more the reason to applaud them for taking the risk.
- nailer 8y ago
  You can easily research Quinn's interactions with others online, including other left wing, trans, feminist, and activist figures. Pizzagate is indeed a fringe belief, as the comment you're replying to already mentions, but should anyone who believes conspiracy theories be excluded? What about left wing ones like Russiagate? Notch is not racist. If you think it's not OK to be white you may wish to look for racism closer to home.