4 ms·

> There are consistent themes across both GTK+ and Qt. And then you open an app that’s neither GTK+ nor Qt, and you’re back to square one. Besides, there’s mo

> There are consistent themes across both GTK+ and Qt. And then you open an app that’s neither GTK+ nor Qt, and you’re back to square one. Besides, there’s more to UI than “theme”. I have ^w mapped to delete word on OS X. One line in one config file. It works universally in every text box on the system. I tried setting that up in Linux. Eventually got it working through some gnome setting or some such. In some apps. Firefox didn’t respect it and wanted its own setting iirc. Then it would forget it every few months and trying to delete a word while I was typing would unconditionally close the browser. Fucking ridiculous stuff like that abounded. Life’s too short. > Pretty much all my apps share a similar theme and UI. There are Mac Apps as well that deviate from whatever "standardization" you're referring to. A few (very few anymore, in my experience) might deviate in terms of widget styling. Essentially none ignore system wide keybindings, or fail to integrate with system wide services, etc. In terms of inconsistency it’s night and day vs what I’ve had to put up with from Linux desktops.

flukus 7y ago
> And then you open an app that’s neither GTK+ nor Qt, and you’re back to square one. The same is true on every OS, if you open a java app on macos it's not going to look right, do you blame apple for that or the developers of the app? > In some apps. Firefox didn’t respect it and wanted its own setting iirc. Will firefox respect it on macos? It's not a good example anyway because firefox is not native, firefox is the electron of the 00's. Even when firefox tries to emulate the native theme it screws up, I had to turn off my dark theme just to get text areas with visible text.
- sjwright 7y ago
  All are exceptions that prove the rule.
- msbarnett 7y ago
  > The same is true on every OS, if you open a java app on macos it's not going to look right, do you blame apple for that or the developers of the app? I’d blame the app, because in the case of OS X there is a single consistent set of UI components that effectively everything uses, and being gratuitously incompatible is on the app. In the case of Linux there is only a hodge-podge bazaar of gratuitously incompatible UI kits that every third app disagrees on which to use, so it’s hard to blame any single dev for the universally frustrating shitshow that results. As an aside, the only java app I’ve interacted with in years (seriously, how often do these even come up any more?), IntelliJ, actually sunk the effort into looking and feeling right. Like I said, it’s night and day on this stuff versus what I experience in Linux on the regular. > Will firefox respect it on macos? Yes. > It's not a good example anyway because firefox is not native, firefox is the electron of the 00's Electron apps also get this 100% right on OS X.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    There are really mostly 2. Gtk and QT and themed with similar themes they aren't different enough to be too meaningful.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    Jetbrains had over a quarter of a million paying users in 2017. I'm not sure how much the average paying user spends but presumably they make somewhere between 37M and 125M gross. More money means more polish. Logically we need to invest in what is important to us.
michaelmrose 7y ago
The majority of users use virtually no hotkeys. A truly shocking portion don't even know how to copy and paste with their keyboard. Weep when you watch people who don't even know how shift keys work and hit caps lock letter caps lock. I don't honestly believe that the inconsistency in colors or gui elements that exist on a typical linux system are a meaningful barrier to anyone. A typical desktop ships with mostly qt or mostly gtk apps that share the same look and feel + a browser that looks and works like the user is used to working across platforms. In a sense the browser is actually the single most important app for the majority of users and its more useful for it to be consistent with expectations than consistent with the desktop. I think power users are more apt to be put off by small differences in much used keybindings but they are the minority. While consistency may seem like an impossible task there are really 4 really big camps. Chrome Firefox gnome kde. This seems like a small enough group that getting everyone to agree on a common way to communicate to all the desired way to define keybindings ought to be tractable. I think this is a worthwhile endeavor we ought to persue.

flukus 7y ago

> And then you open an app that’s neither GTK+ nor Qt, and you’re back to square one. The same is true on every OS, if you open a java app on macos it's not going to look right, do you blame apple for that or the developers of the app? > In some apps. Firefox didn’t respect it and wanted its own setting iirc. Will firefox respect it on macos? It's not a good example anyway because firefox is not native, firefox is the electron of the 00's. Even when firefox tries to emulate the native theme it screws up, I had to turn off my dark theme just to get text areas with visible text.

sjwright 7y ago
All are exceptions that prove the rule.
msbarnett 7y ago
> The same is true on every OS, if you open a java app on macos it's not going to look right, do you blame apple for that or the developers of the app? I’d blame the app, because in the case of OS X there is a single consistent set of UI components that effectively everything uses, and being gratuitously incompatible is on the app. In the case of Linux there is only a hodge-podge bazaar of gratuitously incompatible UI kits that every third app disagrees on which to use, so it’s hard to blame any single dev for the universally frustrating shitshow that results. As an aside, the only java app I’ve interacted with in years (seriously, how often do these even come up any more?), IntelliJ, actually sunk the effort into looking and feeling right. Like I said, it’s night and day on this stuff versus what I experience in Linux on the regular. > Will firefox respect it on macos? Yes. > It's not a good example anyway because firefox is not native, firefox is the electron of the 00's Electron apps also get this 100% right on OS X.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  There are really mostly 2. Gtk and QT and themed with similar themes they aren't different enough to be too meaningful.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  Jetbrains had over a quarter of a million paying users in 2017. I'm not sure how much the average paying user spends but presumably they make somewhere between 37M and 125M gross. More money means more polish. Logically we need to invest in what is important to us.

michaelmrose 7y ago

The majority of users use virtually no hotkeys. A truly shocking portion don't even know how to copy and paste with their keyboard. Weep when you watch people who don't even know how shift keys work and hit caps lock letter caps lock. I don't honestly believe that the inconsistency in colors or gui elements that exist on a typical linux system are a meaningful barrier to anyone. A typical desktop ships with mostly qt or mostly gtk apps that share the same look and feel + a browser that looks and works like the user is used to working across platforms. In a sense the browser is actually the single most important app for the majority of users and its more useful for it to be consistent with expectations than consistent with the desktop. I think power users are more apt to be put off by small differences in much used keybindings but they are the minority. While consistency may seem like an impossible task there are really 4 really big camps. Chrome Firefox gnome kde. This seems like a small enough group that getting everyone to agree on a common way to communicate to all the desired way to define keybindings ought to be tractable. I think this is a worthwhile endeavor we ought to persue.