3 ms·

Maybe Berkeley should spend this energy in fixing its homelessness, crime and housing issues rather than pointless environmental virtue signaling.

mattigames 8y ago
Maybe you don't know but people around the world like to point to SF as examples of places that prohibited plastic bottles, maybe for locals the real issues are the ones you mention but in the big picture to stop using one-time plastics and similar pollutants are the real issues.
- stevenjohns 8y ago
  As an Australian, I have images of homelessness whenever SF is mentioned. I didn't even know that SF prohibited plastic bottles and I've never heard anyone say that. I'd also take a position that homelessness is the real issue in SF and not disposable coffee cup usage. EDIT: reading about the plastic bottle ban in SF[0], it appears that it's very limited > The new regulations prohibit the sale of plastic bottles at events held on city-owned property. Additionally, government agencies may not purchase bottled water. > Private businesses such as grocery stores and mini markets may continue to sell bottled water in the city. To date, little data exists on how the regulations have reduced overall plastic bottle use. [0] https://theecologist.org/2019/apr/03/san-francisco-bans-sale-plastic-bottles https://theecologist.org/2019/apr/03/san-francisco-bans-sale...
  - loeg 8y ago
    > As an Australian, I have images of homelessness whenever SF is mentioned. I didn't even know that SF prohibited plastic bottles and I've never heard anyone say that. Ditto, but I'm from Washington (just a hop and a skip across Oregon from California).
  - omegabravo 8y ago
    > homelessness is the real issue in SF and not disposable coffee cup usage. We can work on improving both problems as the same time quite easily.
fenwick67 8y ago
You can care about two things (or even more)
- blackflame7000 8y ago
  True, but you should probably do something about the bigger problem first because there's no point in re-carpeting if the house is on fire
  - megaremote 8y ago
    So, we should never do anything until all the starving are fed, and all murders and rapists are locked up? Genius.
    - blackflame7000 8y ago
      No, but homelessness will directly impact the environment, Genius. So while you're focusing an iota on cleaning up cups, you'll have people shitting on the street. Much better.
loeg 8y ago
Pricing in externalities by adding a fee for incurring a social cost is a great way to get the free market to address problems. And it doesn't take away from fixing any of the other issues you mentioned. I'm no solid waste expert, so I cannot comment on the utility of reducing disposable coffee cup waste in particular (as opposed to simply raising the price to consumers of trash disposal).
aaotg 8y ago
You have committed the fallacy of relative privation. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

mattigames 8y ago

Maybe you don't know but people around the world like to point to SF as examples of places that prohibited plastic bottles, maybe for locals the real issues are the ones you mention but in the big picture to stop using one-time plastics and similar pollutants are the real issues.

stevenjohns 8y ago
As an Australian, I have images of homelessness whenever SF is mentioned. I didn't even know that SF prohibited plastic bottles and I've never heard anyone say that. I'd also take a position that homelessness is the real issue in SF and not disposable coffee cup usage. EDIT: reading about the plastic bottle ban in SF[0], it appears that it's very limited > The new regulations prohibit the sale of plastic bottles at events held on city-owned property. Additionally, government agencies may not purchase bottled water. > Private businesses such as grocery stores and mini markets may continue to sell bottled water in the city. To date, little data exists on how the regulations have reduced overall plastic bottle use. [0] https://theecologist.org/2019/apr/03/san-francisco-bans-sale-plastic-bottles https://theecologist.org/2019/apr/03/san-francisco-bans-sale...
- loeg 8y ago
  > As an Australian, I have images of homelessness whenever SF is mentioned. I didn't even know that SF prohibited plastic bottles and I've never heard anyone say that. Ditto, but I'm from Washington (just a hop and a skip across Oregon from California).
- omegabravo 8y ago
  > homelessness is the real issue in SF and not disposable coffee cup usage. We can work on improving both problems as the same time quite easily.

fenwick67 8y ago

You can care about two things (or even more)

blackflame7000 8y ago
True, but you should probably do something about the bigger problem first because there's no point in re-carpeting if the house is on fire
- megaremote 8y ago
  So, we should never do anything until all the starving are fed, and all murders and rapists are locked up? Genius.
  - blackflame7000 8y ago
    No, but homelessness will directly impact the environment, Genius. So while you're focusing an iota on cleaning up cups, you'll have people shitting on the street. Much better.

loeg 8y ago

Pricing in externalities by adding a fee for incurring a social cost is a great way to get the free market to address problems. And it doesn't take away from fixing any of the other issues you mentioned. I'm no solid waste expert, so I cannot comment on the utility of reducing disposable coffee cup waste in particular (as opposed to simply raising the price to consumers of trash disposal).

aaotg 8y ago

You have committed the fallacy of relative privation. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as