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> Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac. Rely on some developer(s) spend 10,000 hours of their time for free developing

> Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac. Rely on some developer(s) spend 10,000 hours of their time for free developing a Mac emulation layer, or go on eBay and buy a $600 used Mac to test on...

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asark 8y ago
It may still be too expensive for devs in (very) developing countries or whatever, but I'm pretty sure there are (paid) remote desktop solutions for this. Also you can snag an old mac mini for well under $600, where I am. Like $200-300. It won't be good but that's probably better for testing anyway.
- scottjg 8y ago
  I offer a service that provides you with your own macOS VM, running on real Mac hardware. https://zeromac.com https://zeromac.com It's billed by the hour, so if you just need to quickly test something, it's pretty cheap. Buying an older mac may be more economical though if you need to develop software long term.
  - MuffinFlavored 8y ago
    This is super interesting. Is it your full time job? What level of success are you having with your idea?
    - scottjg 8y ago
      I run it alongside my regular consulting work, so I suppose it's not my full time job. It's also a fairly new business so I'm not too sure how successful it will be yet.
axaxs 8y ago
While your point is taken... I write and contribute to free/open source tools. I can afford a Mac, but will not buy one because there's zero incentive to me. While I'm not sure this project would help, if a free or very low cost proper emulation existed, I'd use it.
gchamonlive 8y ago
It may also be a matter of principle. I won't buy macs even though they are sexy and I have the money for it because I don't agree with its practices. My theoretical customers shouldn't suffer from it though
macdice 8y ago
Or use one of the CI providers that will test your stuff on macOS (alongside Windows, FreeBSD, ...). Possibly for free, if your stuff is open source. I use that for Windows, which I don't personally use at all, and it finds bugs and problems all the time. I wish someone would provide free (!) CI for some rarer OSes and CPU architectures too, but I can dream.
- viraptor 8y ago
  You can't fully test things this way. Not enough to make a serious release anyway. You can easily pass all tests while not being able to even start the app. You need at least one person with the real hardware to do testing.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    This really depends on the tests you're running.
    - viraptor 8y ago
      True. But in context of: "tests in a CI environment which costs you less than a MacBook", I don't believe anyone would go to the level that avoids those issues. It would take a lot of work and resources to replicate a "real run in clean, real environment".
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        Again, this depends on the tests you’re running and how you’ve set up your CI environment.
- faissaloo 8y ago
  Unfortunately MacOS testing is usually extremely slow due to limited numbers of machines to run tests on.
loeg 8y ago
The nice thing about the former is that that cost is shared across all consumers, whereas the latter would be incurred for every user. The latter approach may still cost less for now (or forever), but it's something to keep in mind.
michaelmrose 8y ago
The logical option c is just to not support mac unless your target market is one disproportionately likely to use macs like developers or artists in the US.

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asark 8y ago

It may still be too expensive for devs in (very) developing countries or whatever, but I'm pretty sure there are (paid) remote desktop solutions for this. Also you can snag an old mac mini for well under $600, where I am. Like $200-300. It won't be good but that's probably better for testing anyway.

scottjg 8y ago
I offer a service that provides you with your own macOS VM, running on real Mac hardware. https://zeromac.com https://zeromac.com It's billed by the hour, so if you just need to quickly test something, it's pretty cheap. Buying an older mac may be more economical though if you need to develop software long term.
- MuffinFlavored 8y ago
  This is super interesting. Is it your full time job? What level of success are you having with your idea?
  - scottjg 8y ago
    I run it alongside my regular consulting work, so I suppose it's not my full time job. It's also a fairly new business so I'm not too sure how successful it will be yet.

axaxs 8y ago

While your point is taken... I write and contribute to free/open source tools. I can afford a Mac, but will not buy one because there's zero incentive to me. While I'm not sure this project would help, if a free or very low cost proper emulation existed, I'd use it.

gchamonlive 8y ago

It may also be a matter of principle. I won't buy macs even though they are sexy and I have the money for it because I don't agree with its practices. My theoretical customers shouldn't suffer from it though

macdice 8y ago

Or use one of the CI providers that will test your stuff on macOS (alongside Windows, FreeBSD, ...). Possibly for free, if your stuff is open source. I use that for Windows, which I don't personally use at all, and it finds bugs and problems all the time. I wish someone would provide free (!) CI for some rarer OSes and CPU architectures too, but I can dream.

viraptor 8y ago
You can't fully test things this way. Not enough to make a serious release anyway. You can easily pass all tests while not being able to even start the app. You need at least one person with the real hardware to do testing.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  This really depends on the tests you're running.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    True. But in context of: "tests in a CI environment which costs you less than a MacBook", I don't believe anyone would go to the level that avoids those issues. It would take a lot of work and resources to replicate a "real run in clean, real environment".
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Again, this depends on the tests you’re running and how you’ve set up your CI environment.
faissaloo 8y ago
Unfortunately MacOS testing is usually extremely slow due to limited numbers of machines to run tests on.

loeg 8y ago

The nice thing about the former is that that cost is shared across all consumers, whereas the latter would be incurred for every user. The latter approach may still cost less for now (or forever), but it's something to keep in mind.

michaelmrose 8y ago

The logical option c is just to not support mac unless your target market is one disproportionately likely to use macs like developers or artists in the US.