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I'm probably the only one who thinks it's really stupid to connect things like refrigerators and washing machines to the internet, but I'm going to say it anywa

I'm probably the only one who thinks it's really stupid to connect things like refrigerators and washing machines to the internet, but I'm going to say it anyway.

xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
You're not, but that's only a small piece of it. IP cameras, smart speakers, tablets, e-readers, smart watches, etc., all have this problem in some form or the other.
myself248 7y ago
And it's even stupider to give the user zero local tools to interact with them short of letting them loose on the big bad internet. I wouldn't mind if my washing machine could ding my phone when there's a load of damp clothes in there that I need to handle before they grow mold. That's cool, I'm forgetful, and I waste a lot of water being that forgetful. But it shouldn't need to talk to the internet to do that. The problem is not smart appliances, per se, it's the centralized and vulnerable way those smarts are being implemented. Because it's in the manufacturer's interest to compromise my own security and autonomy. Which is why I don't own any, and I'm sitting here working on my own washing machine door transmitter instead.
- bdamm 7y ago
  Mine has an LED that indicates “clean” and slaves from the internal door switch. Handy source.
  - rzzzt 7y ago
    This could be eg. an SNMP metric/trap, along with other sensors in the machine, then parent could add the "smartness" via their own software.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- taneq 7y ago
  > The problem is not smart appliances, per se, it's the centralized and vulnerable way those smarts are being implemented. Because it's in the manufacturer's interest to compromise my own security and autonomy. Ding ding ding. Most things could be easily implemented without adding external dependencies or impacting privacy but there's no coin in it.
nixpulvis 7y ago
As always it depends what you mean, I'm all for having IoT devices on my local network, exposed in safe ways through some kind of gateway device. This models most homes in some way today anyways.
m463 7y ago
You are not the only one. As a matter of fact, I run NTP at home and get the time from an inexpensive USB GPS dongle. (I actually use more than one) Unfortunately I believe you need 4 to do it right with the way NTP seems to work
taneq 7y ago
Nope, it's dumb. No white goods or appliances (including HVAC!) in my house should ever depend on an internet connection.
adrianmonk 7y ago
It's a perfectly fine thing to do if your refrigerator or washing machine has software from a company that (1) has sufficient expertise to do software well, (2) prioritizes keeping it secure, and (3) commits to supporting it for the entire usable life of the appliance. But usually 0 out of 3 of those are true. The devices come from companies that specialize in hardware, so the software is usually an afterthought. They don't prioritize keeping it secure because they know customers are more interested in features like whether the refrigerator's shelf configuration or the washing machine's capacity. And they don't commit to supporting it for the lifetime of the product because once they have your money, they have little incentive.

I'm probably the only one who thinks it's really stupid to connect things like refrigerators and washing machines to the internet, but I'm going to say it anyway.

xyzzy_plugh 7y ago

You're not, but that's only a small piece of it. IP cameras, smart speakers, tablets, e-readers, smart watches, etc., all have this problem in some form or the other.

myself248 7y ago

And it's even stupider to give the user zero local tools to interact with them short of letting them loose on the big bad internet. I wouldn't mind if my washing machine could ding my phone when there's a load of damp clothes in there that I need to handle before they grow mold. That's cool, I'm forgetful, and I waste a lot of water being that forgetful. But it shouldn't need to talk to the internet to do that. The problem is not smart appliances, per se, it's the centralized and vulnerable way those smarts are being implemented. Because it's in the manufacturer's interest to compromise my own security and autonomy. Which is why I don't own any, and I'm sitting here working on my own washing machine door transmitter instead.

bdamm 7y ago
Mine has an LED that indicates “clean” and slaves from the internal door switch. Handy source.
- rzzzt 7y ago
  This could be eg. an SNMP metric/trap, along with other sensors in the machine, then parent could add the "smartness" via their own software.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
taneq 7y ago
> The problem is not smart appliances, per se, it's the centralized and vulnerable way those smarts are being implemented. Because it's in the manufacturer's interest to compromise my own security and autonomy. Ding ding ding. Most things could be easily implemented without adding external dependencies or impacting privacy but there's no coin in it.

nixpulvis 7y ago

As always it depends what you mean, I'm all for having IoT devices on my local network, exposed in safe ways through some kind of gateway device. This models most homes in some way today anyways.

m463 7y ago

You are not the only one. As a matter of fact, I run NTP at home and get the time from an inexpensive USB GPS dongle. (I actually use more than one) Unfortunately I believe you need 4 to do it right with the way NTP seems to work

taneq 7y ago

Nope, it's dumb. No white goods or appliances (including HVAC!) in my house should ever depend on an internet connection.

adrianmonk 7y ago

It's a perfectly fine thing to do if your refrigerator or washing machine has software from a company that (1) has sufficient expertise to do software well, (2) prioritizes keeping it secure, and (3) commits to supporting it for the entire usable life of the appliance. But usually 0 out of 3 of those are true. The devices come from companies that specialize in hardware, so the software is usually an afterthought. They don't prioritize keeping it secure because they know customers are more interested in features like whether the refrigerator's shelf configuration or the washing machine's capacity. And they don't commit to supporting it for the lifetime of the product because once they have your money, they have little incentive.