4 ms·

If the current way we structure our economy and society is failing large swaths of people, gigs might be a good stop gap, but how many people can be gigified be

by zwkrt 7y ago

If the current way we structure our economy and society is failing large swaths of people, gigs might be a good stop gap, but how many people can be gigified before the whole thing breaks? What is the acceptable percent of people for whom it is ok that they will never have healthcare?

patrickaljord 7y ago
Not sure how this is related to healthcare. I'm from France where everybody has healthcare and the gig economy is still huge. In the US you could either go single payer like France or full private/free market but obligatory like in Switzerland or the Netherlands. Either way, this is not related to the gig economy. The US has a problem where an oligopoly of insurances are trying to keep a bad status quo.
- zwkrt 7y ago
  Sorry if I was unclear. My point is that gig workers in the US and other people of transient employment status do not generally consider themselves to have access to healthcare, even though they technically do through the accumulation of unpayable debt.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    The average Uber driver makes about $35,000 per year: https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/education/how-much-do-uber-lyft-drivers-make-14804869 https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/education/how-muc.... That’s about 300% of the federal poverty line. Under the ACA, they can purchase health insurance on the exchanges for a premium that is capped at 8-10% of their income.[1] In Germany, a self-employed person would pay 15% for mandatory state health insurance premiums. (People who work for a company pay half of that, with their employer paying the other half.) Here in Maryland, a quick search of the ACA exchange shows a Silver Kaiser Permanente plan for $266 per month (subsidized) for a 35-year old single person making $35,000.
    - rightbyte 7y ago
      No way they do ... "indeed.com" has no backing of those numbers.
    - mcguire 7y ago
      Mean, median, and mode... "Pay Per Month: A median of $155 per month and an average of $364" Then, there's that "pay" isn't "pay". These are gross numbers rather than net. "The actual expenses of driving, like maintenance and gas, consume about $4.87 per hour of a driver's income."
      - rayiner 7y ago
        2/3 of Uber drivers only do it part time, so the median isn’t a useful data point if you’re talking about health insurance. The $36,00 figure is for full time. Regardless, if someone makes less than that driving Uber, their ACA premiums are correspondingly lower. And if they make really little, they are eligible for Medicaid in many states.
    - zaarn 7y ago
      In germany consistently working for a company like Uber as part of "gig" would likely fall under "fake self-employed", so Uber would have to offer you an employment contract and you'd pay half of the 15%, so about 8%, which falls on the lower end of your premium caps. You'd also gain accident insurance and other privileges or protections.
exelius 7y ago
It’s just an absurd situation that health care is tied to employment in the first place. If you get sick and can’t work, you just become a burden on society that’s not accounted for anywhere — but society still has to pay for anyway. And we wonder why our healthcare costs are so high...
Creationer 7y ago
We aren't failing people: unemployment hasn't been this low in 20 years. We have spent 28 trillion dollars on welfare, yet the poverty rate is unchanged over decades. The only thing that supports people is work, and we need to eliminate as many impediments to it as possible: over-regulation, payroll taxes, income taxes. Make huge cuts to welfare with the savings and streamline healthcare to provide cheap, basic services to every citizen (in line with disallowing citizenship by birth). Then, regulate the supply of labour by barring immigration from poor countries (establish a liberal visa regime with countries in the HDI top 30 though, to allow legitimate talent to come to America). You have the recipe for a reasonable, modern life for any American willing to work. It could be a blueprint for the whole Western world.
- sgt101 7y ago
  If you were serious about providing a reasonable, modern life for Americans wouldn't you provide high quality free healthcare as a basic right? Wouldn't you provide free education and eliminate student debt? Wouldn't you ensure a dignified retirement and old age for all? Your manifesto doesn't include these things, why not?
  - Creationer 7y ago
    > streamline healthcare to provide cheap, basic services to every citizen Already covered that. We can pay for healthcare for all citizens, but it will mean excluding very expensive things like heart surgery, cancer treatment, joint replacements. We will probably need to be much more forward on euthanasia for the old, to save resources. We can provide free higher education, but its going to mean no student housing, no athletics programs and restricting college to the top 20% of the cohort academically. Why should we have to tax the current worker population in order to pay for old people to do nothing? The current retirement system is a flawed ponzi scheme. People have continued to work until death or impairment in the past - why should retirement be considered a human right now? Cut payroll taxes and income taxes, and the elderly can happily work 1-2 days per week, and businesses will be happy to have them. Store clerks, fast food workers, cleaners, child carers. These jobs can be done well by the elderly, and work keeps the brain active and healthy. What if I want to work part-time throughout my life, and never retire? Shouldn't I have the ability as an individual to decide how and if I want to retire?
mcguire 7y ago
What if gigs aren't a stop-gap, but the way our economy and society is failing people? This has been going on for decades---I can remember complaints about UPS, etc., delivery employees being replaced by contractors, and I've worked for places with the infamous 19.5hr/wk schedule.

by zwkrt 7y ago

patrickaljord 7y ago

Not sure how this is related to healthcare. I'm from France where everybody has healthcare and the gig economy is still huge. In the US you could either go single payer like France or full private/free market but obligatory like in Switzerland or the Netherlands. Either way, this is not related to the gig economy. The US has a problem where an oligopoly of insurances are trying to keep a bad status quo.

zwkrt 7y ago
Sorry if I was unclear. My point is that gig workers in the US and other people of transient employment status do not generally consider themselves to have access to healthcare, even though they technically do through the accumulation of unpayable debt.
- rayiner 7y ago
  The average Uber driver makes about $35,000 per year: https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/education/how-much-do-uber-lyft-drivers-make-14804869 https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/education/how-muc.... That’s about 300% of the federal poverty line. Under the ACA, they can purchase health insurance on the exchanges for a premium that is capped at 8-10% of their income.[1] In Germany, a self-employed person would pay 15% for mandatory state health insurance premiums. (People who work for a company pay half of that, with their employer paying the other half.) Here in Maryland, a quick search of the ACA exchange shows a Silver Kaiser Permanente plan for $266 per month (subsidized) for a 35-year old single person making $35,000.
  - rightbyte 7y ago
    No way they do ... "indeed.com" has no backing of those numbers.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    Mean, median, and mode... "Pay Per Month: A median of $155 per month and an average of $364" Then, there's that "pay" isn't "pay". These are gross numbers rather than net. "The actual expenses of driving, like maintenance and gas, consume about $4.87 per hour of a driver's income."
    - rayiner 7y ago
      2/3 of Uber drivers only do it part time, so the median isn’t a useful data point if you’re talking about health insurance. The $36,00 figure is for full time. Regardless, if someone makes less than that driving Uber, their ACA premiums are correspondingly lower. And if they make really little, they are eligible for Medicaid in many states.
  - zaarn 7y ago
    In germany consistently working for a company like Uber as part of "gig" would likely fall under "fake self-employed", so Uber would have to offer you an employment contract and you'd pay half of the 15%, so about 8%, which falls on the lower end of your premium caps. You'd also gain accident insurance and other privileges or protections.

exelius 7y ago

It’s just an absurd situation that health care is tied to employment in the first place. If you get sick and can’t work, you just become a burden on society that’s not accounted for anywhere — but society still has to pay for anyway. And we wonder why our healthcare costs are so high...

Creationer 7y ago

We aren't failing people: unemployment hasn't been this low in 20 years. We have spent 28 trillion dollars on welfare, yet the poverty rate is unchanged over decades. The only thing that supports people is work, and we need to eliminate as many impediments to it as possible: over-regulation, payroll taxes, income taxes. Make huge cuts to welfare with the savings and streamline healthcare to provide cheap, basic services to every citizen (in line with disallowing citizenship by birth). Then, regulate the supply of labour by barring immigration from poor countries (establish a liberal visa regime with countries in the HDI top 30 though, to allow legitimate talent to come to America). You have the recipe for a reasonable, modern life for any American willing to work. It could be a blueprint for the whole Western world.

sgt101 7y ago
If you were serious about providing a reasonable, modern life for Americans wouldn't you provide high quality free healthcare as a basic right? Wouldn't you provide free education and eliminate student debt? Wouldn't you ensure a dignified retirement and old age for all? Your manifesto doesn't include these things, why not?
- Creationer 7y ago
  > streamline healthcare to provide cheap, basic services to every citizen Already covered that. We can pay for healthcare for all citizens, but it will mean excluding very expensive things like heart surgery, cancer treatment, joint replacements. We will probably need to be much more forward on euthanasia for the old, to save resources. We can provide free higher education, but its going to mean no student housing, no athletics programs and restricting college to the top 20% of the cohort academically. Why should we have to tax the current worker population in order to pay for old people to do nothing? The current retirement system is a flawed ponzi scheme. People have continued to work until death or impairment in the past - why should retirement be considered a human right now? Cut payroll taxes and income taxes, and the elderly can happily work 1-2 days per week, and businesses will be happy to have them. Store clerks, fast food workers, cleaners, child carers. These jobs can be done well by the elderly, and work keeps the brain active and healthy. What if I want to work part-time throughout my life, and never retire? Shouldn't I have the ability as an individual to decide how and if I want to retire?

mcguire 7y ago

What if gigs aren't a stop-gap, but the way our economy and society is failing people? This has been going on for decades---I can remember complaints about UPS, etc., delivery employees being replaced by contractors, and I've worked for places with the infamous 19.5hr/wk schedule.