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In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. I see you talk about your technical ability a lot, but that is g

by dyeje 8y ago

In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. I see you talk about your technical ability a lot, but that is generally not the core competency of an engineering manager. I suggest working on those abilities. It is very much so one of those situations where doing the job will get you the title.

jondubois 8y ago
I run and maintain a successful open source project which is used by thousands of companies and has a small team of contributors who work for free. So maybe your definition of leadership is outdated. It should be all about results. All the rest is BS IMO.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Maybe you have bad habits, maybe you aren’t in the right social circles. Maybe not interviewing at enough companies. Hard to say. But you should keep your mind open and not only point a finger outward. Believe there are management coaches that might spot self defeating habits quickly. Books like andy grove’s and innovators dilemma, peopleware, dale carnegie etc, can help too.
  - jondubois 7y ago
    >> maybe you aren’t in the right social circles I think this may be the case. I don't have many friends but those that I do have are very close. The foundation of most friendships among the wealthy seems to be shared financial interests. This is not real friendship IMO and I cannot understand why supposedly intelligent people (who already have a high level of financial security) would participate in this kind of social theater where everyone is acting and everyone knows that everyone else is also acting and yet they all keep playing along. Friendships must be founded around core values not around mutual financial interests.
pbourke 8y ago
> In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. Really? In my experience, people are often promoted into management when they demonstrate political ability. Often the people who I consider the true leaders - engineers who everyone considers competent, good advisors, mentors and role models, etc - continue quietly being engineers. Several times, I’ve seen organizations reward people who were adept at deflecting and spinning projects, goosing metrics and hiring quickly (despite a lack of fit/competence in their hires). The teams that they led were demoralized and rudderless, but you’d hardly know that from how they were rewarded and promoted.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  In pathological orgs yes, they do exist but shouldn’t be a goal.
- jondubois 8y ago
  Agreed. The definition of leadership that most leaders have in mind is very superficial. They just want people who look and talk like a leader but they're willing to compromise on everything else (all things that actually matter in terms of producing value). Most software companies either are mini-monopolies or they are able to keep securing VC funding through social connections so they can afford to have mediocre leaders who can talk but don't deliver.

by dyeje 8y ago

jondubois 8y ago

I run and maintain a successful open source project which is used by thousands of companies and has a small team of contributors who work for free. So maybe your definition of leadership is outdated. It should be all about results. All the rest is BS IMO.

mixmastamyk 8y ago
Maybe you have bad habits, maybe you aren’t in the right social circles. Maybe not interviewing at enough companies. Hard to say. But you should keep your mind open and not only point a finger outward. Believe there are management coaches that might spot self defeating habits quickly. Books like andy grove’s and innovators dilemma, peopleware, dale carnegie etc, can help too.
- jondubois 7y ago
  >> maybe you aren’t in the right social circles I think this may be the case. I don't have many friends but those that I do have are very close. The foundation of most friendships among the wealthy seems to be shared financial interests. This is not real friendship IMO and I cannot understand why supposedly intelligent people (who already have a high level of financial security) would participate in this kind of social theater where everyone is acting and everyone knows that everyone else is also acting and yet they all keep playing along. Friendships must be founded around core values not around mutual financial interests.

pbourke 8y ago

> In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. Really? In my experience, people are often promoted into management when they demonstrate political ability. Often the people who I consider the true leaders - engineers who everyone considers competent, good advisors, mentors and role models, etc - continue quietly being engineers. Several times, I’ve seen organizations reward people who were adept at deflecting and spinning projects, goosing metrics and hiring quickly (despite a lack of fit/competence in their hires). The teams that they led were demoralized and rudderless, but you’d hardly know that from how they were rewarded and promoted.

mixmastamyk 8y ago
In pathological orgs yes, they do exist but shouldn’t be a goal.
jondubois 8y ago
Agreed. The definition of leadership that most leaders have in mind is very superficial. They just want people who look and talk like a leader but they're willing to compromise on everything else (all things that actually matter in terms of producing value). Most software companies either are mini-monopolies or they are able to keep securing VC funding through social connections so they can afford to have mediocre leaders who can talk but don't deliver.