7 ms·

It was a disingenuous excuse for people to use a racial slur anytime someone mentioned the word “water” to the point where it appeared almost any time someone u

by p49k 7y ago

It was a disingenuous excuse for people to use a racial slur anytime someone mentioned the word “water” to the point where it appeared almost any time someone used the word in any context for any reason. It’s ridiculous how many people can’t control themselves when they think they have a thin excuse to cover their terrible behavior.

9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
I'm not American but I've been told the word nigga is not the n word. Do I have a wrong impression about it? I'm surprised a bit because the mainstream music is filled with the word nigga but also the n word. Isn't it workings against the idea of not using these words?
- wpietri 7y ago
  It's contextual. Many slurs have been reclaimed by the communities that they have been applied to. E.g., as a mild example, terms like "nerd" and "geek" were pejoratives that were adopted and reworked. E.g., Geek Pride: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day As with most of these slurs, positive in-group use is ok, but negative out-group use is still generally seen as abusive. I might talk about my geeky ways or refer to my fellow geeks. But I'd still bristle at non-geeks using the term in its original pejorative sense. The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    > The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal. I think this is quite dubious. "Nerd" and "geek" or even "freak" were never pejoratives in the way that the other word was. You could sympathetically say of someone, even as an outsider "He's a bit of a nerd/geek". But it would make no sense for one who was sympathetic to say something like "he's a bit of a "-- well, you get the idea. (This is also why I don't even claim or pretend that I'll ever understand this whole "reclamation" deal. I do accept that free speech is a thing and that a social ingroup can do whatever they want amongst themselves, but I still find it somewhat in poor taste, and counterproductive to its goal.)
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      Nerd, geek, and freak are nowhere near as utterly vile as the n word. They are in completely different leagues. The first step to understanding the reclamation is understanding just how offensive the n word was and is today. And the culture that surrounded it. For non-Americans this topic is a difficult issue to get into because it involves unpacking and understanding so much history and culture.
      - 0815test 7y ago
        > Nerd, geek, and freak are nowhere near as utterly vile as the n word. They are in completely different leagues. Yes, which supports what I said, contra what GP said. You can't just take such a vile word with such vile connotations attached and "rework" it harmlessly like you could with "geek"-- that's just not how human psychology works, and an IAT or such would easily bear this out. You'd have to wait for the whole semantic field of the original word to become basically forgotten, then you could freely reclaim it. (There is such a thing as dysphemism shift, but it tends to happen randomly or to be driven by language-internal forces. "Yankee" used to be a (mildly) derogatory term, but it became popular and neutral because there was no sympathetic term for "a U.S. person" in the lexicon - so "Yankee" moved into that space. But even this is a rare phenomenon; you can't just "make this happen".)
        learc83 7y ago
        Nerd and Geek weren't reworked harmlessly overnight. There was a very gradual change in connotation over the years. It took 50 years for nerd to move from completely unsympathetic epithet to being "reclaimed". 40 years ago a sympathetic person would never have said "he's a bit of a nerd". Nerd started to be "reclaimed" in the 80s and 90s, and there was a time period were it was still used pejoratively by non-nerds while being used positively by nerds. "Yankee" by the way still has very strong negative connotations in the south particularly among older people. It's a very good example of a word that is still used by outsiders derogatorily, but insiders don't find it offensive at all.
        wpietri 7y ago
- bgilroy26 7y ago
  Both ____a and ____er are the N-word and should not be said by non-black people
  - TKWasRight 7y ago
    > ...should not be said by non-black people I disagree...people of all ethnicities can say any word they like whenever they want...there might be social consequences, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with saying a word
    - bgilroy26 7y ago
      How do you distinguish between actions that have negative social consequences and actions that are inherently wrong?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- freehunter 7y ago
  With an "a" the word can be a source of pride and community for black Americans, which is why it's used so commonly in black music. Non-black Americans are not commonly accepted into this community, so when non-black Americans say the word it's considered very rude. With an "er" on the end, it's almost always a racist term. Either way you spell it, it's pretty much only acceptable for black Americans to say it.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    Fun fact: the word with an added "d" at the end is a very different word that actually means "cheapskate, overly parsimonious". I have a fringe theory that this is what all the music videos actually mean to refer to (it would kinda fit with the whole "bling bling" and "money is everything" theme) and that the whole thing is a really teh'ible misundah'standing which wee all vehwy sohwy about! (I would love for the entire black community to reclaim that word as part of promoting widespread awareness of good personal-finance practices.)
    - Amezarak 7y ago
      Niggard has no etymological, denotational, or connotational connection to a racial slur. It’s a little astounding to me that it’s a bad word now that people are afraid to even type because it sounds sorta like one until you get the whole word out.
      - intertextuality 7y ago
        I didn't even know of that word, so I don't know it's history, but niggardly is another similar word, or snigger. Etymologically they may be unrelated but come on. Every single time you say one of those words we all know what word people are going to think of instead, as they're way too close in spelling and pronunciation. It doesn't help those words are not commonly used at all either. So although they technically may not be bad words, I wouldn't say them. Languages do not follow rules or technicalities. Those words just got the short end of the stick, unfortunately.

by p49k 7y ago

9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago

I'm not American but I've been told the word nigga is not the n word. Do I have a wrong impression about it? I'm surprised a bit because the mainstream music is filled with the word nigga but also the n word. Isn't it workings against the idea of not using these words?

wpietri 7y ago
It's contextual. Many slurs have been reclaimed by the communities that they have been applied to. E.g., as a mild example, terms like "nerd" and "geek" were pejoratives that were adopted and reworked. E.g., Geek Pride: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day As with most of these slurs, positive in-group use is ok, but negative out-group use is still generally seen as abusive. I might talk about my geeky ways or refer to my fellow geeks. But I'd still bristle at non-geeks using the term in its original pejorative sense. The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal.
- 0815test 7y ago
  > The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal. I think this is quite dubious. "Nerd" and "geek" or even "freak" were never pejoratives in the way that the other word was. You could sympathetically say of someone, even as an outsider "He's a bit of a nerd/geek". But it would make no sense for one who was sympathetic to say something like "he's a bit of a "-- well, you get the idea. (This is also why I don't even claim or pretend that I'll ever understand this whole "reclamation" deal. I do accept that free speech is a thing and that a social ingroup can do whatever they want amongst themselves, but I still find it somewhat in poor taste, and counterproductive to its goal.)
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    Nerd, geek, and freak are nowhere near as utterly vile as the n word. They are in completely different leagues. The first step to understanding the reclamation is understanding just how offensive the n word was and is today. And the culture that surrounded it. For non-Americans this topic is a difficult issue to get into because it involves unpacking and understanding so much history and culture.
    - 0815test 7y ago
      > Nerd, geek, and freak are nowhere near as utterly vile as the n word. They are in completely different leagues. Yes, which supports what I said, contra what GP said. You can't just take such a vile word with such vile connotations attached and "rework" it harmlessly like you could with "geek"-- that's just not how human psychology works, and an IAT or such would easily bear this out. You'd have to wait for the whole semantic field of the original word to become basically forgotten, then you could freely reclaim it. (There is such a thing as dysphemism shift, but it tends to happen randomly or to be driven by language-internal forces. "Yankee" used to be a (mildly) derogatory term, but it became popular and neutral because there was no sympathetic term for "a U.S. person" in the lexicon - so "Yankee" moved into that space. But even this is a rare phenomenon; you can't just "make this happen".)
      - learc83 7y ago
        Nerd and Geek weren't reworked harmlessly overnight. There was a very gradual change in connotation over the years. It took 50 years for nerd to move from completely unsympathetic epithet to being "reclaimed". 40 years ago a sympathetic person would never have said "he's a bit of a nerd". Nerd started to be "reclaimed" in the 80s and 90s, and there was a time period were it was still used pejoratively by non-nerds while being used positively by nerds. "Yankee" by the way still has very strong negative connotations in the south particularly among older people. It's a very good example of a word that is still used by outsiders derogatorily, but insiders don't find it offensive at all.
      - wpietri 7y ago
bgilroy26 7y ago
Both ____a and ____er are the N-word and should not be said by non-black people
- TKWasRight 7y ago
  > ...should not be said by non-black people I disagree...people of all ethnicities can say any word they like whenever they want...there might be social consequences, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with saying a word
  - bgilroy26 7y ago
    How do you distinguish between actions that have negative social consequences and actions that are inherently wrong?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
freehunter 7y ago
With an "a" the word can be a source of pride and community for black Americans, which is why it's used so commonly in black music. Non-black Americans are not commonly accepted into this community, so when non-black Americans say the word it's considered very rude. With an "er" on the end, it's almost always a racist term. Either way you spell it, it's pretty much only acceptable for black Americans to say it.
- 0815test 7y ago
  Fun fact: the word with an added "d" at the end is a very different word that actually means "cheapskate, overly parsimonious". I have a fringe theory that this is what all the music videos actually mean to refer to (it would kinda fit with the whole "bling bling" and "money is everything" theme) and that the whole thing is a really teh'ible misundah'standing which wee all vehwy sohwy about! (I would love for the entire black community to reclaim that word as part of promoting widespread awareness of good personal-finance practices.)
  - Amezarak 7y ago
    Niggard has no etymological, denotational, or connotational connection to a racial slur. It’s a little astounding to me that it’s a bad word now that people are afraid to even type because it sounds sorta like one until you get the whole word out.
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      I didn't even know of that word, so I don't know it's history, but niggardly is another similar word, or snigger. Etymologically they may be unrelated but come on. Every single time you say one of those words we all know what word people are going to think of instead, as they're way too close in spelling and pronunciation. It doesn't help those words are not commonly used at all either. So although they technically may not be bad words, I wouldn't say them. Languages do not follow rules or technicalities. Those words just got the short end of the stick, unfortunately.