5 ms·

> it denies the reality of an Islamic offensive in Europe Stopped reading here. There's no evidence of this.

by tomlock 7y ago

xondono 7y ago
Are you serious? The hundreds dead in terrorist attacks aren’t evidence enough for you?
- miclol 7y ago
  Are you serious ? Islam = Islamist terrorism ? Check which religion are the first victim of Islamist terrorism in numbers and then think again...
  - xondono 7y ago
    There’s a different between islamist and muslim...
    - berbec 7y ago
      Islamic is to Islamic extremist as Christian is to KKK. We don't go judging our local Baptist congregation by the Klan and it's equally unjust to judge a Mosque full of peaceful, loving people.
      - xondono 7y ago
        Why do we have to play such word games around Islam? When someone plants a bomb and claims to do it for christianity, I call that "Christian terrorism". When someone plants a bomb and claims to do it for islam, I call that "Islamic terrorism". am I saying all christians are terrorists with the first statement? of course not. It would be ridiculous. am I saying all muslims are terrorist with the second statement? of course not. That would be ridiculous too. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade. PS: And before the "Alt right" BS starts, no, I'm not right wing, I just voted one of the most left leaning parties in my country.
- deogeo 7y ago
  That's limiting 'offensive' to terrorism. But in a democracy, all you need to take control are numbers. E.g. see how votes are split along racial lines in the US - few hispanics will vote for limiting further immigration, and even existing immigration laws aren't upheld in sanctuary cities.
- tomlock 7y ago
  Oh for sure there's been an increase in extremist activity in Europe, as Anders Breivik and many others provide evidence for.
chippy 7y ago
Could be a pretty bad translation from the French. Original article in Liberation: https://www.liberation.fr/societe/2010/11/23/l-invention-de-l-islamophobie_695512 https://www.liberation.fr/societe/2010/11/23/l-invention-de-... my school boy french and DDG search charitably appears to read something like "reality of a fundamentalist offensive" which could possibly be translated as "Islamist"?
- mpweiher 7y ago
  Looks like it. Google translate does this: "The term Islamophobia fulfills several functions: to deny, in order to better legitimize the reality of a fundamentalist offensive in Europe, to attack secularism by likening it to a new fundamentalism." Also, not that it should matter, the site is/was part of Perlentaucher.de, a well-known and not at all right-wing etc. culture magazine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlentaucher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlentaucher
  - heraclius 7y ago
    “Le terme d’islamophobie remplit plusieurs fonctions : nier pour mieux la légitimer la réalité d’une offensive intégriste en Europe, attaquer la laïcité en l’assimilant à un nouveau fondamentalisme.” I think that Google Translate is probably correct here on “en l’assimilant”,⁰ but it could also be “to attack laïcité by assimilating it into a new fundamentalism”: I suppose the argument is then that one has radically altered laïcité into some neutered form that cannot recognise any problem with Islam. ⁰ assimiler means both “liken” and “assimilate” according to my memory and Wiktionary
factsaresacred 7y ago
> Nine EU Member States reported a total of 205 foiled, failed and completed terrorist attacks in 2017..These attacks killed 68 victims and left 844 injured. Nearly all casualties (62) were the result of jihadist terrorist attacks. The number of jihadist terrorist attacks grew from 13 in 2016 to 33 in 2017. and: > 975 individuals were arrested in the EU for terrorism-related offences (2016: 1002). Most of these arrests were related to jihadist terrorism This from the EU Terrorism Situation & Trend Report Also just read or watch any ISIS material for further evidence. Or simply interact with reality.
- tomlock 7y ago
  > Or simply interact with reality. I have and I've noticed that by far the easiest and most obvious demographic correlation with terrorism is men. In my interactions with reality I've noticed that there's an inordinate/biased fear of Islam over and above a fear of men, in demographic terms, particularly among the men who tend to proclaim Islam is some immanent threat to Europe. Maybe there's a useful word we can use, in reality, to describe an inordinate fear of Islam?

> it denies the reality of an Islamic offensive in Europe Stopped reading here. There's no evidence of this.

xondono 7y ago

Are you serious? The hundreds dead in terrorist attacks aren’t evidence enough for you?

miclol 7y ago
Are you serious ? Islam = Islamist terrorism ? Check which religion are the first victim of Islamist terrorism in numbers and then think again...
- xondono 7y ago
  There’s a different between islamist and muslim...
  - berbec 7y ago
    Islamic is to Islamic extremist as Christian is to KKK. We don't go judging our local Baptist congregation by the Klan and it's equally unjust to judge a Mosque full of peaceful, loving people.
    - xondono 7y ago
      Why do we have to play such word games around Islam? When someone plants a bomb and claims to do it for christianity, I call that "Christian terrorism". When someone plants a bomb and claims to do it for islam, I call that "Islamic terrorism". am I saying all christians are terrorists with the first statement? of course not. It would be ridiculous. am I saying all muslims are terrorist with the second statement? of course not. That would be ridiculous too. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade. PS: And before the "Alt right" BS starts, no, I'm not right wing, I just voted one of the most left leaning parties in my country.
deogeo 7y ago
That's limiting 'offensive' to terrorism. But in a democracy, all you need to take control are numbers. E.g. see how votes are split along racial lines in the US - few hispanics will vote for limiting further immigration, and even existing immigration laws aren't upheld in sanctuary cities.
tomlock 7y ago
Oh for sure there's been an increase in extremist activity in Europe, as Anders Breivik and many others provide evidence for.

chippy 7y ago

Could be a pretty bad translation from the French. Original article in Liberation: https://www.liberation.fr/societe/2010/11/23/l-invention-de-l-islamophobie_695512 https://www.liberation.fr/societe/2010/11/23/l-invention-de-... my school boy french and DDG search charitably appears to read something like "reality of a fundamentalist offensive" which could possibly be translated as "Islamist"?

mpweiher 7y ago
Looks like it. Google translate does this: "The term Islamophobia fulfills several functions: to deny, in order to better legitimize the reality of a fundamentalist offensive in Europe, to attack secularism by likening it to a new fundamentalism." Also, not that it should matter, the site is/was part of Perlentaucher.de, a well-known and not at all right-wing etc. culture magazine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlentaucher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlentaucher
- heraclius 7y ago
  “Le terme d’islamophobie remplit plusieurs fonctions : nier pour mieux la légitimer la réalité d’une offensive intégriste en Europe, attaquer la laïcité en l’assimilant à un nouveau fondamentalisme.” I think that Google Translate is probably correct here on “en l’assimilant”,⁰ but it could also be “to attack laïcité by assimilating it into a new fundamentalism”: I suppose the argument is then that one has radically altered laïcité into some neutered form that cannot recognise any problem with Islam. ⁰ assimiler means both “liken” and “assimilate” according to my memory and Wiktionary

factsaresacred 7y ago

> Nine EU Member States reported a total of 205 foiled, failed and completed terrorist attacks in 2017..These attacks killed 68 victims and left 844 injured. Nearly all casualties (62) were the result of jihadist terrorist attacks. The number of jihadist terrorist attacks grew from 13 in 2016 to 33 in 2017. and: > 975 individuals were arrested in the EU for terrorism-related offences (2016: 1002). Most of these arrests were related to jihadist terrorism This from the EU Terrorism Situation & Trend Report Also just read or watch any ISIS material for further evidence. Or simply interact with reality.

tomlock 7y ago
> Or simply interact with reality. I have and I've noticed that by far the easiest and most obvious demographic correlation with terrorism is men. In my interactions with reality I've noticed that there's an inordinate/biased fear of Islam over and above a fear of men, in demographic terms, particularly among the men who tend to proclaim Islam is some immanent threat to Europe. Maybe there's a useful word we can use, in reality, to describe an inordinate fear of Islam?