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This is one of the best essays I've ever read. I was surprised to find it was never discussed on HN (plenty of submissions, no traction). So go read it HNers.

by paol 7y ago

sl-1 7y ago
Seconded. This essay made me re-think what our problems are and what kind of dynamics those problems exhibit.
- 0815test 7y ago
  I feel the same way about the Inadequate Equilibria book https://equilibriabook.com/toc/ https://equilibriabook.com/toc/ (free-to-read). In many ways, it's a different look into the very same problems, with more depth and less egregore/meme engineering.
  - sl-1 7y ago
    Yep, Inadequate Equilibria is also a gem. I'd say that compared to MoM, it is more down-to-earth and about how to navigate the problem field and how to find the cases where one can make a difference. I also feel that as an engineer it is really easy to forget to see the context of a problem. Often technical solutions can be really shitty, but still work because of the context. And installing better solutions won't work if the context does not allow it (or makes it too pricey). Often the shittiest solutions are cemented in use by difficult webs of dependencies that are hard to change. Examples of this kind of systems would be social media platforms (cemented by network effects) and payment systems (technically PITA, but hard to compete with).
  - madhadron 7y ago
    Why do people keep recommending this book? It's someone trying to reason by metaphor with thermodynamics instead of just doing the basic game theory. Mind you, I have never found Yudkowsky's thought anything but imprecise and wandering.
paulpauper 7y ago
it's a really good essay. A similar example can be given with the current student loan situation. if employers all together agreed to not req. degrees, the problem would be attenuated , but defection means that such cooperation won't happen. An employer who defects will have an advantage. Competition makes things better and worse at the same time .
flancian 7y ago
It resonated with me deeply too, which I guess is what often happens when you are at the just the right time in some intellectual development -- you've read the right things, and you already think or believe (is there a difference?) some or even most of the things that the essay will be telling you. Then the essay comes, builds some new connections, and drives home one or more new points that you were building up to unknowingly. The whole structure is strengthened, and some parts of it even get something resembling a final shape. We sometimes then just call it an enjoyable read and move on, until the next time. But regardless of the outcome the process itself is one of the best things in the human experience.
- wool_gather 7y ago
  Yes. There were also several link-outs that are now on my to-read list, which is, to me, always a positive outcome. I think this essay itself is probably worth revisiting in a couple of months, too.

This is one of the best essays I've ever read. I was surprised to find it was never discussed on HN (plenty of submissions, no traction). So go read it HNers.

by paol 7y ago

This is one of the best essays I've ever read. I was surprised to find it was never discussed on HN (plenty of submissions, no traction). So go read it HNers.

sl-1 7y ago

Seconded. This essay made me re-think what our problems are and what kind of dynamics those problems exhibit.

0815test 7y ago
I feel the same way about the Inadequate Equilibria book https://equilibriabook.com/toc/ https://equilibriabook.com/toc/ (free-to-read). In many ways, it's a different look into the very same problems, with more depth and less egregore/meme engineering.
- sl-1 7y ago
  Yep, Inadequate Equilibria is also a gem. I'd say that compared to MoM, it is more down-to-earth and about how to navigate the problem field and how to find the cases where one can make a difference. I also feel that as an engineer it is really easy to forget to see the context of a problem. Often technical solutions can be really shitty, but still work because of the context. And installing better solutions won't work if the context does not allow it (or makes it too pricey). Often the shittiest solutions are cemented in use by difficult webs of dependencies that are hard to change. Examples of this kind of systems would be social media platforms (cemented by network effects) and payment systems (technically PITA, but hard to compete with).
- madhadron 7y ago
  Why do people keep recommending this book? It's someone trying to reason by metaphor with thermodynamics instead of just doing the basic game theory. Mind you, I have never found Yudkowsky's thought anything but imprecise and wandering.

paulpauper 7y ago

it's a really good essay. A similar example can be given with the current student loan situation. if employers all together agreed to not req. degrees, the problem would be attenuated , but defection means that such cooperation won't happen. An employer who defects will have an advantage. Competition makes things better and worse at the same time .

flancian 7y ago

It resonated with me deeply too, which I guess is what often happens when you are at the just the right time in some intellectual development -- you've read the right things, and you already think or believe (is there a difference?) some or even most of the things that the essay will be telling you. Then the essay comes, builds some new connections, and drives home one or more new points that you were building up to unknowingly. The whole structure is strengthened, and some parts of it even get something resembling a final shape. We sometimes then just call it an enjoyable read and move on, until the next time. But regardless of the outcome the process itself is one of the best things in the human experience.

wool_gather 7y ago
Yes. There were also several link-outs that are now on my to-read list, which is, to me, always a positive outcome. I think this essay itself is probably worth revisiting in a couple of months, too.