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A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

tomduncalf 8y ago
I don’t know how it works in the US but in the U.K. becoming a contractor can provide a good half way house between being employed and running your own company. You’re not an employee so no performance reviews or line management and you are responsible for running your own company, but at the same time many contracts will be working with teams of permanent staff for 6 months or more so it’s not like you are off totally on your own having to invent new products or hunt for projects. I’d guess the remuneration can match that of a manager after you’ve been doing it for a while, but you’re essentially a technical expert who’s expected to be able to hit the ground running quickly and add a lot of value at each client. My impression is that demand for good contractors outstrips supply right now (it can make sense for companies with fixed budgets or tight timelines to hire contractors despite a higher per-day cost) and the business side really isn’t that complicated, so it is a fairly well trodden path by good developers at a certain point in their career. Of course, if you are someone who feels like they benefit from having the company structure (eg in terms of management, training, etc) or doesn’t like changing company fairly often it’s probably not for you! Edit: forgot about this guide posted to HN a while ago: https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/m...
- aetherspawn 8y ago
  How do you, as a contractor, find this sort of work?
  - tomduncalf 8y ago
    Personally I’ve been lucky enough to find it via word of mouth/recommendation and also directly approaching clients. Most contractors get their work through recruiters though, if you mention to a recruiter you are interested in contract work you’ll start getting a ton of phone calls and emails. It’s not uncommon for contracts to get extended several times, and you’ll probably build up a network of other contractors quite quickly. One thing you might find is getting your first contract is hard if you are in a permanent job - companies generally are looking for contractors to start ASAP, so a one month notice period (with the risk that you get tempted to stay at your existing company) is often not acceptable to them. Some clients will wait for the right person but you might find you need to quit your job first before finding work which can be a bit nerve wracking - so it’s wise to survey the market, talk to recruiters etc. for a while before doing so! If you’re UK based https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/m... may be interesting.
  - ed_balls 8y ago
    you can start with a current employer
    - laythea 8y ago
      be warned: the government does not like it if you are an employee and then go directly into contracting for said same company. you become an "employee under guise" and then you will be taxed as such. then you get the worst of both worlds.
      - weberc2 8y ago
        Which government?
        tomduncalf 8y ago
        I assume he means U.K. (IR35 ruling) although there may be equivalents elsewhere in the world
- cheerlessbog 8y ago
  This may be easier in the UK as your healthcare is not tied to your employment.
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    Having worked with contractors in the US, there are some added legal cautions where employers for especially software contractors to not setup too long/close of an engagement. But, in general many contractors will end up working for a larger contractor house which carries your vacation/healthcare etc. They of course take a cut to do that. None of them are exemplary, but some are less terrible. An arrangement of a cooperative of contractors and even whole mini teams could control more of their own destiny would be interesting there.
achenatx 8y ago
this is what we do, we help our employees start their own businesses as the top of the career path. We will help them with marketing, HR, recruiting, finance, etc. Also they can run losses while getting started. We havent had anyone get promoted to this level, but several are close.
- awinder 8y ago
  So that top tier is starting a new business line inside the company essentially? Or is the idea that that company might get spun off to a separate entity eventually? This sounds like a pretty nifty / unique idea so just curious how that works
scarface74 8y ago
So instead of going into management because you don’t like management and want to stay an individual contributor, you now become not only the manager of your own company, now you have to worry about marketing, finances, etc. I go to bed every night not worrying about whether my company remains sustainable. If they don’t, as long as it is a microeconomic issue (company failed) and not a macroeconomic issue (economy is in the toilet), I reach out to my network and get another job relatively quickly. The same amount of money appears in my account every other week whether I go on vacation, call in sick, etc. And I’m 45. Ageism is way overblown if you keep your skills current with the market and your network strong.
- ses1984 8y ago
  One. 45 is the very beginning of when ageism starts to show (at most companies). There are certainly some companies that would be biased against a 45 but maybe you don't work there. Just wait. Two. You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x unless you start to take on more responsibility, like worrying about sustainability.
  - Veelox 8y ago
    >You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x Well damn, I guess I am going to have to make do with 200k being a rank and file developer at a FAANG company.
    - ses1984 8y ago
      If you're happy with that, great. I am. But we're not really the subjects of this thread are we?
  - scarface74 8y ago
    So you mean if I work really hard and double my income, I can have the big house in the burbs, cash flow my son’s way through college, and in a few years and just work part of the year as a consultant/contractor? Oh wait. I’ll already be able to do that as a bog standard enterprise developer/architect in a mid cost of living area as part of a dual income household. So why do I want the headache?
njepa 8y ago
I don't think it is the "Business Stuff", though that can be troublesome. It is the hidden costs. You often have to be significantly more successful running your own business for the same "deal" to make sense, which is hard. Some people manage to find their own path, but that requires a lot of effort.
abacadaba 8y ago
Starting to see this as the only viable option for myself, a big leap though.

tomduncalf 8y ago

I don’t know how it works in the US but in the U.K. becoming a contractor can provide a good half way house between being employed and running your own company. You’re not an employee so no performance reviews or line management and you are responsible for running your own company, but at the same time many contracts will be working with teams of permanent staff for 6 months or more so it’s not like you are off totally on your own having to invent new products or hunt for projects. I’d guess the remuneration can match that of a manager after you’ve been doing it for a while, but you’re essentially a technical expert who’s expected to be able to hit the ground running quickly and add a lot of value at each client. My impression is that demand for good contractors outstrips supply right now (it can make sense for companies with fixed budgets or tight timelines to hire contractors despite a higher per-day cost) and the business side really isn’t that complicated, so it is a fairly well trodden path by good developers at a certain point in their career. Of course, if you are someone who feels like they benefit from having the company structure (eg in terms of management, training, etc) or doesn’t like changing company fairly often it’s probably not for you! Edit: forgot about this guide posted to HN a while ago: https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/m...

aetherspawn 8y ago
How do you, as a contractor, find this sort of work?
- tomduncalf 8y ago
  Personally I’ve been lucky enough to find it via word of mouth/recommendation and also directly approaching clients. Most contractors get their work through recruiters though, if you mention to a recruiter you are interested in contract work you’ll start getting a ton of phone calls and emails. It’s not uncommon for contracts to get extended several times, and you’ll probably build up a network of other contractors quite quickly. One thing you might find is getting your first contract is hard if you are in a permanent job - companies generally are looking for contractors to start ASAP, so a one month notice period (with the risk that you get tempted to stay at your existing company) is often not acceptable to them. Some clients will wait for the right person but you might find you need to quit your job first before finding work which can be a bit nerve wracking - so it’s wise to survey the market, talk to recruiters etc. for a while before doing so! If you’re UK based https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/tadast/switching-to-contracting-uk/blob/m... may be interesting.
- ed_balls 8y ago
  you can start with a current employer
  - laythea 8y ago
    be warned: the government does not like it if you are an employee and then go directly into contracting for said same company. you become an "employee under guise" and then you will be taxed as such. then you get the worst of both worlds.
    - weberc2 8y ago
      Which government?
      - tomduncalf 8y ago
        I assume he means U.K. (IR35 ruling) although there may be equivalents elsewhere in the world
cheerlessbog 8y ago
This may be easier in the UK as your healthcare is not tied to your employment.
- dv_dt 8y ago
  Having worked with contractors in the US, there are some added legal cautions where employers for especially software contractors to not setup too long/close of an engagement. But, in general many contractors will end up working for a larger contractor house which carries your vacation/healthcare etc. They of course take a cut to do that. None of them are exemplary, but some are less terrible. An arrangement of a cooperative of contractors and even whole mini teams could control more of their own destiny would be interesting there.

achenatx 8y ago

this is what we do, we help our employees start their own businesses as the top of the career path. We will help them with marketing, HR, recruiting, finance, etc. Also they can run losses while getting started. We havent had anyone get promoted to this level, but several are close.

awinder 8y ago
So that top tier is starting a new business line inside the company essentially? Or is the idea that that company might get spun off to a separate entity eventually? This sounds like a pretty nifty / unique idea so just curious how that works

scarface74 8y ago

So instead of going into management because you don’t like management and want to stay an individual contributor, you now become not only the manager of your own company, now you have to worry about marketing, finances, etc. I go to bed every night not worrying about whether my company remains sustainable. If they don’t, as long as it is a microeconomic issue (company failed) and not a macroeconomic issue (economy is in the toilet), I reach out to my network and get another job relatively quickly. The same amount of money appears in my account every other week whether I go on vacation, call in sick, etc. And I’m 45. Ageism is way overblown if you keep your skills current with the market and your network strong.

ses1984 8y ago
One. 45 is the very beginning of when ageism starts to show (at most companies). There are certainly some companies that would be biased against a 45 but maybe you don't work there. Just wait. Two. You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x unless you start to take on more responsibility, like worrying about sustainability.
- Veelox 8y ago
  >You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x Well damn, I guess I am going to have to make do with 200k being a rank and file developer at a FAANG company.
  - ses1984 8y ago
    If you're happy with that, great. I am. But we're not really the subjects of this thread are we?
- scarface74 8y ago
  So you mean if I work really hard and double my income, I can have the big house in the burbs, cash flow my son’s way through college, and in a few years and just work part of the year as a consultant/contractor? Oh wait. I’ll already be able to do that as a bog standard enterprise developer/architect in a mid cost of living area as part of a dual income household. So why do I want the headache?

njepa 8y ago

I don't think it is the "Business Stuff", though that can be troublesome. It is the hidden costs. You often have to be significantly more successful running your own business for the same "deal" to make sense, which is hard. Some people manage to find their own path, but that requires a lot of effort.

abacadaba 8y ago

Starting to see this as the only viable option for myself, a big leap though.