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> "Many Java developers I worked with in the past had no understanding of callbacks, asynchronous logic, events, recursion, scope, closure, array notation (Java

> "Many Java developers I worked with in the past had no understanding of callbacks, asynchronous logic, events, recursion, scope, closure, array notation (Java has this), or high speed data via random access hash maps (Java has this too)..." What??? I find it unlikely that ANY paid "programmer" in ANY language would not have at least a decent grasp of most of those things in order to produce any correct program at all. No, I think it's more likely that you're involved in what I've often speculated is a physical manifestation of a finite monkey experiment. The remainder of an drug-fueled late-night VC bet, no doubt. The other side, of course, is likely trying to corner the cavendish market right now - starve you guys out! Stay strong - I believe in you.

topspin 7y ago
>> What??? I find it unlikely that ANY paid "programmer" in ANY language would not have at least a decent grasp of most of those things in order to produce any correct program at all. Such ignorance is commonplace. I have seen so much evidence of basic ignorance in so much code that I do not at all dispute what austincheney has said. The worst problems appear in an area that was omitted from the list; concurrency. Many, many "paid programmers" are oblivious to concurrency issues and produce races and deadlocks throughout their work. The thought that anyone might expect them to yield "thread safe" work prior to production deployment is absurd. As basic and simple minded as Java is, it is far beyond some large fraction of the paid programmers using it. If this offends you and you believe this is a world where such incompetence is not tolerated please understand you are, respectfully, very wrong. The people employing such "programmers" do not care, even when they are told and provided irrefutable evidence. They want cheap. They want to check a "done" box and if problems appear later they'll make more boxes. They simply don't care.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  By my experience, the language being used is orthogonal to companies willing to hire such low level devs out of the street.
  - topspin 7y ago
    The bulk of them are billed as high level devs complete with masters degrees and provided under contract by body shops. They are not "out of the street." They were "taught" java almost exclusively.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Exactly what I was referring to. Out of the street devs, sold as capable of doing something. A recurring pattern in offshoring consultancies. And no, it isn't exclusive to Java.

topspin 7y ago

>> What??? I find it unlikely that ANY paid "programmer" in ANY language would not have at least a decent grasp of most of those things in order to produce any correct program at all. Such ignorance is commonplace. I have seen so much evidence of basic ignorance in so much code that I do not at all dispute what austincheney has said. The worst problems appear in an area that was omitted from the list; concurrency. Many, many "paid programmers" are oblivious to concurrency issues and produce races and deadlocks throughout their work. The thought that anyone might expect them to yield "thread safe" work prior to production deployment is absurd. As basic and simple minded as Java is, it is far beyond some large fraction of the paid programmers using it. If this offends you and you believe this is a world where such incompetence is not tolerated please understand you are, respectfully, very wrong. The people employing such "programmers" do not care, even when they are told and provided irrefutable evidence. They want cheap. They want to check a "done" box and if problems appear later they'll make more boxes. They simply don't care.

pjmlp 7y ago
By my experience, the language being used is orthogonal to companies willing to hire such low level devs out of the street.
- topspin 7y ago
  The bulk of them are billed as high level devs complete with masters degrees and provided under contract by body shops. They are not "out of the street." They were "taught" java almost exclusively.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Exactly what I was referring to. Out of the street devs, sold as capable of doing something. A recurring pattern in offshoring consultancies. And no, it isn't exclusive to Java.