5 ms·

In the US one of the biggest problems I have experienced is that drivers do not adhere to the international rule of having slow drivers on the right side of the

by fosk 7y ago

In the US one of the biggest problems I have experienced is that drivers do not adhere to the international rule of having slow drivers on the right side of the freeway, especially in California. As a result to this there are more lane splitting episodes (even within the speed limit) in order to finally being able to keep moving at a faster speed because the lane is effectively blocked by other drivers. In addition to that, occasionally drivers will go faster (emergency, being late, and so on) and those same slow drivers that occupy each one of the 5 lanes at the same time will amplify the lane splitting, ultimately causing temporary traffic jams. I never really understood why is this - in Europe we automatically merge to the right and always try to keep the leftest lane available for whoever needs to use it.

theonemind 7y ago
This used to bother me, then I realized that under heavy congestion conditions, you probably get higher overall throughput on the highway if no one tries to keep a lane free.
was8309 7y ago
in Pittsburgh, part of the reason is that there are some exit ramps off the left lane. People who are afraid to change lanes get in the left lane and stay there for miles so they don't have to merge to get to the ramp
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  And we have weaves (2 roads merging and then splitting) that are much too short, and on ramps that have stop signs as you enter the highway. Sometimes the right becomes an exit only as well. Our roads are a mess, but I love them. Driving almost anywhere else feels easy.
dmckeon 7y ago
California drivers do tend to not “keep right”, partly because the highway designs that Caltrans uses tend to prefer angled-merge on-ramps rather than parallel acceleration lanes. Drivers soon learn that the rightmost lane often has congestion due to merging cars arriving at the merge point in groups created by off-highway traffic lights, and then tend to avoid driving in the right-most lane. Metering lights on the on-ramps help reduce the grouping, but the angled merges remain, as does the learned behavior. Also, many US states post signs: “Keep right except to pass” but California posts “Slower traffic keep right” and since nobody wants to identify as “slower” we do not. Interstate 5 in the Central Valley is generally two lanes, and semi-trucks and vehicles pulling trailers are limited to 55 mph, and must keep right except to pass. Other traffic has a higher speed limit. When traffic is heavy, nobody leaves the left lane because they are much less likely to find a gap to merge into.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
legohead 7y ago
in California, at least SoCal, this "rule" has no meaning, as the congestion is at maximum level. there are simply too many cars for fast traffic to even be possible. even during non-rush hour periods the congestion is ridiculous. the only time I've driven comfortably on the highway is after 11pm and before 6am.
c22 7y ago
One of the biggest problems I experience on freeways in the US is that traveling 5 or even 10 mph above the posted speed limit makes you a "slow driver". So even though you might feel that travelling at or above the maximum legal speed limit should give you the right to occupy the "fast" lane someone will prove you wrong by screaming up your ass at 80 mph, 90 mph, or more, flashing their high beams and becoming irate.
- cryptonector 7y ago
  You don't get the "right" to "occupy" the left lane just because you're going fast. You have the obligation to yield the passing lane to anyone who wants to go faster. You do not know who has an emergency, and who doesn't. You don't get to enforce one law (speed limits) and flout the other (yield the passing lane). In fact, you don't get to enforce any laws if that isn't your job, and if it were your job, you should not disregard one of those laws.
  - c22 7y ago
    Hey, I exclusively drive the speed limit in the right or middle lane. This is just an observation I've made that seemed relevant. For what it's worth, I highly doubt that there was any sort of "emergency" involved in the vast majority of times I've observed this behavior. Also, apart from properly lighted emergency vehicles no one has the right to exceed the speed limit regardless of the situation. Edit: According to this resource[0] only 4 states require you to yield to faster traffic approaching from behind in the left lane, so this seems to be far from a universal requirement. [0] https://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html https://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html
  - yeuuehhr 7y ago
    Fuck you and follow the law dip shit. You're going to get people killed because you feel entited to drive like a maniac.
  - Scea91 7y ago
    What is the rule exactly? 1) Yield the passing lane for anyone that wants to go faster or 2) Yield the passing lane if lane on the right is free. I am asking because I am not sure, but (2) would make more sense to me. You should not be required to break the speed limit to be allowed to pass the slower traffic.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vladvasiliu 7y ago
This is far from universal in Europe. In France, in places where highways have at least three lanes people tend to drive in the middle lane even when traffic is light. Most of the time, outside cities, merge lanes tend to be long enough even for trucks to be able to speed up enough and onramps are relatively far between so I doubt the reason people drive in the middle lane is to avoid incoming traffic. I could see how around Paris this might be learned behaviour for a reason similar to that described in SoCal by a sibling poster. The Périphérique (the ring road around Paris proper) has mostly 3 or more lanes and looks like a highway but is not actually one. The most important difference is that traffic on the Périphérique has to yield to incoming traffic. Of course, onramps being relatively short and with bad visibility coupled with the fact that Parisians don't reliably yield when they're supposed to, has the effect of slowing traffic a lot at merge points which makes it a pain to drive in the right lane even if the traffic is relatively light.
- aarroyoc 7y ago
  But it's still forbidden. In Spain it's the same but the rule you learn is "always on the right, except when you're going faster than the cars on the right". And you can't overtake a car when you're on the right, it is only allowed when you're on the left. But there's a lack of enforcement as it is also sometimes difficult to know when someone is breaking that rule.
- user5994461 7y ago
  There are few 3 lanes roads in France. It's mostly the highways that cross France east-west or north-south and a couple around the biggest cities. On highways, the right most lane is occupied by trucks. You have to stay in the middle lane if you drive at the speed limit (130 km/h), otherwise you're swapping middle and right twice a minute to pass trucks. The peripherique around Paris is saturated. All the lanes are used at all times. It's not possible to favor the right most lane. Interesting fact. There are special rules in the french driving code for continuous stream of vehicles, for example it's prohibited to change lane unless taking a turn.
LiamPa 7y ago
In the UK this is illegal, since 2013 police can fine up to £100 and three points on your license however I don’t think it has made a blind bit of difference. Aggressively moving to the slow lane after overtaking sometimes helps..
- McDev 7y ago
  Don't forget to give your windshield a good wash just as you're moving in front of that middle lane driver!
alor 7y ago
As a fellow European with experience driving in California (who prefers driving in the right-most lane), I believe it boils down to a few ways in which CA freeways are different to those in Europe: - posted speed limits fairly low (typically 65mph) - *much* higher traffic volume - traffic consisting of ~95% cars - left-lane freeway ramps - ramps usually merging directly into the freeway (mentioned by another comment here) A combination of these factors results in all lanes moving at roughly the same speed (a few mph above the posted limit), which may feel bizarre to a European driver, but certainly improves traffic flow in this specific scenario. In general, freeways are windy (similar to most European 'dual carriageways'), which requires low speed limits, which reduces throughput. Since the traffic volume is very high, to increase throughput left-lane ramps and ramps merging directly into the freeway are introduced, which may cause occasional hiccups, but on average works well. Since the vast majority of vehicles are cars, all travelling at roughly the same speed, the highest throughput can be achieved by fully occupying all lanes. There was an interesting related discussion on HN on a few occasions about the best way to utilise escalators at metro stations - see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916704
- Xylakant 7y ago
  > which requires low speed limits, which reduces throughput Lower speed limits usually increase the density on the road which does increase the Fotoalbum throughput. It takes longer for an individual car to make a given distance, but the number of cars that pass any given point at a specific point in time is increased.
apple4ever 7y ago
I believe its because of what some of the above commenters discussed: that some drivers believe not only do they have a "right" to the lane, but its their job to enforce the speed limit.

by fosk 7y ago

theonemind 7y ago

This used to bother me, then I realized that under heavy congestion conditions, you probably get higher overall throughput on the highway if no one tries to keep a lane free.

was8309 7y ago

in Pittsburgh, part of the reason is that there are some exit ramps off the left lane. People who are afraid to change lanes get in the left lane and stay there for miles so they don't have to merge to get to the ramp

jimktrains2 7y ago
And we have weaves (2 roads merging and then splitting) that are much too short, and on ramps that have stop signs as you enter the highway. Sometimes the right becomes an exit only as well. Our roads are a mess, but I love them. Driving almost anywhere else feels easy.

dmckeon 7y ago

California drivers do tend to not “keep right”, partly because the highway designs that Caltrans uses tend to prefer angled-merge on-ramps rather than parallel acceleration lanes. Drivers soon learn that the rightmost lane often has congestion due to merging cars arriving at the merge point in groups created by off-highway traffic lights, and then tend to avoid driving in the right-most lane. Metering lights on the on-ramps help reduce the grouping, but the angled merges remain, as does the learned behavior. Also, many US states post signs: “Keep right except to pass” but California posts “Slower traffic keep right” and since nobody wants to identify as “slower” we do not. Interstate 5 in the Central Valley is generally two lanes, and semi-trucks and vehicles pulling trailers are limited to 55 mph, and must keep right except to pass. Other traffic has a higher speed limit. When traffic is heavy, nobody leaves the left lane because they are much less likely to find a gap to merge into.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

legohead 7y ago

in California, at least SoCal, this "rule" has no meaning, as the congestion is at maximum level. there are simply too many cars for fast traffic to even be possible. even during non-rush hour periods the congestion is ridiculous. the only time I've driven comfortably on the highway is after 11pm and before 6am.

c22 7y ago

One of the biggest problems I experience on freeways in the US is that traveling 5 or even 10 mph above the posted speed limit makes you a "slow driver". So even though you might feel that travelling at or above the maximum legal speed limit should give you the right to occupy the "fast" lane someone will prove you wrong by screaming up your ass at 80 mph, 90 mph, or more, flashing their high beams and becoming irate.

cryptonector 7y ago
You don't get the "right" to "occupy" the left lane just because you're going fast. You have the obligation to yield the passing lane to anyone who wants to go faster. You do not know who has an emergency, and who doesn't. You don't get to enforce one law (speed limits) and flout the other (yield the passing lane). In fact, you don't get to enforce any laws if that isn't your job, and if it were your job, you should not disregard one of those laws.
- c22 7y ago
  Hey, I exclusively drive the speed limit in the right or middle lane. This is just an observation I've made that seemed relevant. For what it's worth, I highly doubt that there was any sort of "emergency" involved in the vast majority of times I've observed this behavior. Also, apart from properly lighted emergency vehicles no one has the right to exceed the speed limit regardless of the situation. Edit: According to this resource[0] only 4 states require you to yield to faster traffic approaching from behind in the left lane, so this seems to be far from a universal requirement. [0] https://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html https://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html
- yeuuehhr 7y ago
  Fuck you and follow the law dip shit. You're going to get people killed because you feel entited to drive like a maniac.
- Scea91 7y ago
  What is the rule exactly? 1) Yield the passing lane for anyone that wants to go faster or 2) Yield the passing lane if lane on the right is free. I am asking because I am not sure, but (2) would make more sense to me. You should not be required to break the speed limit to be allowed to pass the slower traffic.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

vladvasiliu 7y ago

This is far from universal in Europe. In France, in places where highways have at least three lanes people tend to drive in the middle lane even when traffic is light. Most of the time, outside cities, merge lanes tend to be long enough even for trucks to be able to speed up enough and onramps are relatively far between so I doubt the reason people drive in the middle lane is to avoid incoming traffic. I could see how around Paris this might be learned behaviour for a reason similar to that described in SoCal by a sibling poster. The Périphérique (the ring road around Paris proper) has mostly 3 or more lanes and looks like a highway but is not actually one. The most important difference is that traffic on the Périphérique has to yield to incoming traffic. Of course, onramps being relatively short and with bad visibility coupled with the fact that Parisians don't reliably yield when they're supposed to, has the effect of slowing traffic a lot at merge points which makes it a pain to drive in the right lane even if the traffic is relatively light.

aarroyoc 7y ago
But it's still forbidden. In Spain it's the same but the rule you learn is "always on the right, except when you're going faster than the cars on the right". And you can't overtake a car when you're on the right, it is only allowed when you're on the left. But there's a lack of enforcement as it is also sometimes difficult to know when someone is breaking that rule.
user5994461 7y ago
There are few 3 lanes roads in France. It's mostly the highways that cross France east-west or north-south and a couple around the biggest cities. On highways, the right most lane is occupied by trucks. You have to stay in the middle lane if you drive at the speed limit (130 km/h), otherwise you're swapping middle and right twice a minute to pass trucks. The peripherique around Paris is saturated. All the lanes are used at all times. It's not possible to favor the right most lane. Interesting fact. There are special rules in the french driving code for continuous stream of vehicles, for example it's prohibited to change lane unless taking a turn.

LiamPa 7y ago

In the UK this is illegal, since 2013 police can fine up to £100 and three points on your license however I don’t think it has made a blind bit of difference. Aggressively moving to the slow lane after overtaking sometimes helps..

McDev 7y ago
Don't forget to give your windshield a good wash just as you're moving in front of that middle lane driver!

alor 7y ago

As a fellow European with experience driving in California (who prefers driving in the right-most lane), I believe it boils down to a few ways in which CA freeways are different to those in Europe: - posted speed limits fairly low (typically 65mph) - *much* higher traffic volume - traffic consisting of ~95% cars - left-lane freeway ramps - ramps usually merging directly into the freeway (mentioned by another comment here) A combination of these factors results in all lanes moving at roughly the same speed (a few mph above the posted limit), which may feel bizarre to a European driver, but certainly improves traffic flow in this specific scenario. In general, freeways are windy (similar to most European 'dual carriageways'), which requires low speed limits, which reduces throughput. Since the traffic volume is very high, to increase throughput left-lane ramps and ramps merging directly into the freeway are introduced, which may cause occasional hiccups, but on average works well. Since the vast majority of vehicles are cars, all travelling at roughly the same speed, the highest throughput can be achieved by fully occupying all lanes. There was an interesting related discussion on HN on a few occasions about the best way to utilise escalators at metro stations - see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916704

Xylakant 7y ago
> which requires low speed limits, which reduces throughput Lower speed limits usually increase the density on the road which does increase the Fotoalbum throughput. It takes longer for an individual car to make a given distance, but the number of cars that pass any given point at a specific point in time is increased.

apple4ever 7y ago

I believe its because of what some of the above commenters discussed: that some drivers believe not only do they have a "right" to the lane, but its their job to enforce the speed limit.