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Brain drain within the US is just as frequently about cultural rather than economic issues. The culture wars the republicans have been running on since the 80s

Brain drain within the US is just as frequently about cultural rather than economic issues. The culture wars the republicans have been running on since the 80s turns off thoughtful people - anti-intellectualism is killing these states. That said, it’s incredibly underserved and there’s tons of very capable and friendly people. Edit: maybe I didn’t get the intended point across - I’d ask though, how many people do you know that moved for cultural reasons, especially from hometowns? I’m in the LGBT community where almost every single person I meet has moved for cultural reasons.

myko 8y ago
This is what I saw growing up in rural Ohio. Many HS classmates moved out of state and others moved into the major urban centers of Ohio.
- smashingfiasco 8y ago
  I left Toledo last year and moved to the east coast. I was one of maybe three of my friends who was left at that point. It could be a really great state, but the dying lake and dying industrial economy really wrecked the place. The area needs serious investment, but I'm nowhere in the position to contribute back like that, so I made the jump. A thing I like to say is that I am proud that I am from Ohio, but I'm also happy I'm not there now.
  - js2 8y ago
    How can you be proud of where you are from? You had no choice in being born there, and as you said it’s a state without a lot of opportunity, and in any case, you didn’t personally contribute to anything to make the place better. So why be proud of that? I’m from Florida but it’s not something I’m proud or not proud of. I’m proud of my kids. I’m proud of my work. I’m proud of my multi decade relationship with my wife. Those are things to be proud of. When a class I belong to does something great, I feel I can only be proud to be a member of that class to the extent that I contributed to the great thing and that we worked together to achieve something greater than ourselves. Even then I’m proud that “we did that thing” not that “I’m a member of that group.” Just a thought. I know many people are proud of where they are from but it’s irrational to me.
geofft 8y ago
This is an entirely fair point—there's a fair amount of brain drain that can be attributed to "I don't want to live in a red state." The LGBT thing is anecdotally true in my experience, and in particular, leaving your home state for college is a good socially-acceptable excuse to leave your home state and meet others you suspect are like you at exactly the same time that you're no longer a minor under your parents' control.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Sick leave, parental leave, legal marijuana, assisted suicide, non compete bans, better environmental protections, pro choice, are all desirable to the young people I know and red states go the other way on those policies.
  - refurb 8y ago
    Huh! The fastest growing states in 2018 were: Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Florida and Washington.[1] [1]https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimates-national-state.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimate...
    - ikeyany 8y ago
      My theories: ID/UT/AZ -> Lower/middle class people can no longer afford to live comfortably in California FL/WA -> People are getting sick of the progressively longer, shittier winters in the midwest/northeast
    - wyldfire 8y ago
      Population changes are due to more than just migration. Birth and death rates are also significant factors.
    - SantalBlush 8y ago
      That's percentage growth, not numeric growth. So while their population increase was largely due to national migration, those migration numbers didn't need to be very high because they don't have huge populations (except Florida).
2bitencryption 8y ago
I wonder what it would look like to superimpose over the maps in this article a map of states with the highest rate of climate-change denial?
Rafuino 8y ago
I think it's partially cultural and partially economic. I left my home state (which scored poorly in this Senate report) because I couldn't get a great education in the state system, nor were there any prospects for the kinds of careers I was interested in (and there still aren't today). I love visiting where I grew up, and most of my family is still there, but the jobs I want are not and will not be there for any foreseeable future. Seeing your edit, I can understand why you think it's mostly cultural rather than economic, but I definitely think it's both.
- taurath 8y ago
  I meant to just point it out as a potential other major factor - completely left out of the report because it’s from the republican majority’s office.
FlowNote 8y ago
> The culture wars the republicans have been running on since the 80s turns off thoughtful people You accuse "republicans" of running a culture war on a board that you know will never downvote you or moderate you... while announcing you're part of the LGBT community. Real quick: can you name one country throughout history where LGBT lifestyles aren't promoted or endlessly sustained by massive, massive, massive media effort/high-level cultural/religious/military infiltration? Your "community" is a living, breathing culture war artifact that is 100% artifical and is, literally, made in advertising board rooms. Imagine the amount of people who intentionally avoid anywhere your fake culture infiltrates and how much brain power refuses to help you out.
burlesona 8y ago
I'm not sure the map backs up what you're saying. If you look at the 2017 Net Brain Drain it shows the following top gainers: - Texas - Virginia - Illinois - Maryland - Colorado - California - New Jersey - New York - Massachussets Georgia and North Carolina also showed strong gains (along with many other states). That may be blue-leaning but it's not a landslide. It's more like people are concentrating in the biggest cities generally, and to the degree that there's a blue-shift its that states dominated by their urban population lean democrat and states dominated by a rural population lean republican, so the cultural change follows the demographic shifts rather than driving them.
- duxup 8y ago
  You're picking states, but the report talks about moving to cities that tend to be blue.
  - burlesona 8y ago
    My point is that all cities tend to be blue. Look at the electoral maps by county in the last several elections and it’s pretty stark: little blue islands in an ocean of red - but the blue dots are the big cities where about half the country lives.
- jaredklewis 8y ago
  How is it not a landslide? Of the 9 top gainers you listed, only one leans republican (Texas) [1]. All others lean democratic. Of course as pointed out by a sibling, it’s kind of an irrelevant point anyway. The brain migration is away from rural areas (which are red, regardless of state), to big cities (which are blue, regardless of state). That only reenforces the parent’s hypothesis that intellectuals resent the anti-intellectual bent republicans have taken in recent times. 1. https://news.gallup.com/poll/247025/democratic-states-exceed-republican-states-four-2018.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/247025/democratic-states-exceed...
  - Izkata 8y ago
    Illinois at least supports their claim - that it's because of the large cities, not the states as a whole. Take away Chicago and Illinois would be pretty Republican: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Illinois_Governor_Election_Results_by_County%2C_2018.svg/150px-Illinois_Governor_Election_Results_by_County%2C_2018.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Il...
cageface 8y ago
I left Utah many years ago for exactly these reasons. Salt Lake City is a lot more progressive now than it was then but every time I go back I’m reminded of how much I still feel estranged from that culture. If anything people there seem to be doubling down on their more intransigent beliefs lately.
skookumchuck 8y ago
> The culture wars the republicans have been running on since the 80s turns off thoughtful people - anti-intellectualism There was plenty of anti-intellectualism in the US in the 70s. The movie "Revenge of the Nerds" wasn't made in a cultural vacuum. Neither was "Animal House". Sports heros have always been worshiped, not so with intellectuals (other than Einstein). Much of this changed with Bill Gates. He was derided for being a nerd for years, until he made so much money people stopped laughing at him.
- taurath 8y ago
  “Nerds” were derided as being relatively single-minded and unsocial, where to be successful in the business world at the time (and still now) meant communication and being able to easily form relationships. The nerds formed a new ladder from which to be successful and thereby respected - they’re powerful enough to take down the not-nerds. You’re not wrong about anti-intellectualism always being a thing though, point taken!

myko 8y ago

This is what I saw growing up in rural Ohio. Many HS classmates moved out of state and others moved into the major urban centers of Ohio.

smashingfiasco 8y ago
I left Toledo last year and moved to the east coast. I was one of maybe three of my friends who was left at that point. It could be a really great state, but the dying lake and dying industrial economy really wrecked the place. The area needs serious investment, but I'm nowhere in the position to contribute back like that, so I made the jump. A thing I like to say is that I am proud that I am from Ohio, but I'm also happy I'm not there now.
- js2 8y ago
  How can you be proud of where you are from? You had no choice in being born there, and as you said it’s a state without a lot of opportunity, and in any case, you didn’t personally contribute to anything to make the place better. So why be proud of that? I’m from Florida but it’s not something I’m proud or not proud of. I’m proud of my kids. I’m proud of my work. I’m proud of my multi decade relationship with my wife. Those are things to be proud of. When a class I belong to does something great, I feel I can only be proud to be a member of that class to the extent that I contributed to the great thing and that we worked together to achieve something greater than ourselves. Even then I’m proud that “we did that thing” not that “I’m a member of that group.” Just a thought. I know many people are proud of where they are from but it’s irrational to me.

geofft 8y ago

This is an entirely fair point—there's a fair amount of brain drain that can be attributed to "I don't want to live in a red state." The LGBT thing is anecdotally true in my experience, and in particular, leaving your home state for college is a good socially-acceptable excuse to leave your home state and meet others you suspect are like you at exactly the same time that you're no longer a minor under your parents' control.

lotsofpulp 8y ago
Sick leave, parental leave, legal marijuana, assisted suicide, non compete bans, better environmental protections, pro choice, are all desirable to the young people I know and red states go the other way on those policies.
- refurb 8y ago
  Huh! The fastest growing states in 2018 were: Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Florida and Washington.[1] [1]https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimates-national-state.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimate...
  - ikeyany 8y ago
    My theories: ID/UT/AZ -> Lower/middle class people can no longer afford to live comfortably in California FL/WA -> People are getting sick of the progressively longer, shittier winters in the midwest/northeast
  - wyldfire 8y ago
    Population changes are due to more than just migration. Birth and death rates are also significant factors.
  - SantalBlush 8y ago
    That's percentage growth, not numeric growth. So while their population increase was largely due to national migration, those migration numbers didn't need to be very high because they don't have huge populations (except Florida).

2bitencryption 8y ago

I wonder what it would look like to superimpose over the maps in this article a map of states with the highest rate of climate-change denial?

Rafuino 8y ago

I think it's partially cultural and partially economic. I left my home state (which scored poorly in this Senate report) because I couldn't get a great education in the state system, nor were there any prospects for the kinds of careers I was interested in (and there still aren't today). I love visiting where I grew up, and most of my family is still there, but the jobs I want are not and will not be there for any foreseeable future. Seeing your edit, I can understand why you think it's mostly cultural rather than economic, but I definitely think it's both.

taurath 8y ago
I meant to just point it out as a potential other major factor - completely left out of the report because it’s from the republican majority’s office.

FlowNote 8y ago

> The culture wars the republicans have been running on since the 80s turns off thoughtful people You accuse "republicans" of running a culture war on a board that you know will never downvote you or moderate you... while announcing you're part of the LGBT community. Real quick: can you name one country throughout history where LGBT lifestyles aren't promoted or endlessly sustained by massive, massive, massive media effort/high-level cultural/religious/military infiltration? Your "community" is a living, breathing culture war artifact that is 100% artifical and is, literally, made in advertising board rooms. Imagine the amount of people who intentionally avoid anywhere your fake culture infiltrates and how much brain power refuses to help you out.

burlesona 8y ago

I'm not sure the map backs up what you're saying. If you look at the 2017 Net Brain Drain it shows the following top gainers: - Texas - Virginia - Illinois - Maryland - Colorado - California - New Jersey - New York - Massachussets Georgia and North Carolina also showed strong gains (along with many other states). That may be blue-leaning but it's not a landslide. It's more like people are concentrating in the biggest cities generally, and to the degree that there's a blue-shift its that states dominated by their urban population lean democrat and states dominated by a rural population lean republican, so the cultural change follows the demographic shifts rather than driving them.

duxup 8y ago
You're picking states, but the report talks about moving to cities that tend to be blue.
- burlesona 8y ago
  My point is that all cities tend to be blue. Look at the electoral maps by county in the last several elections and it’s pretty stark: little blue islands in an ocean of red - but the blue dots are the big cities where about half the country lives.
jaredklewis 8y ago
How is it not a landslide? Of the 9 top gainers you listed, only one leans republican (Texas) [1]. All others lean democratic. Of course as pointed out by a sibling, it’s kind of an irrelevant point anyway. The brain migration is away from rural areas (which are red, regardless of state), to big cities (which are blue, regardless of state). That only reenforces the parent’s hypothesis that intellectuals resent the anti-intellectual bent republicans have taken in recent times. 1. https://news.gallup.com/poll/247025/democratic-states-exceed-republican-states-four-2018.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/247025/democratic-states-exceed...
- Izkata 8y ago
  Illinois at least supports their claim - that it's because of the large cities, not the states as a whole. Take away Chicago and Illinois would be pretty Republican: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Illinois_Governor_Election_Results_by_County%2C_2018.svg/150px-Illinois_Governor_Election_Results_by_County%2C_2018.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Il...

cageface 8y ago

I left Utah many years ago for exactly these reasons. Salt Lake City is a lot more progressive now than it was then but every time I go back I’m reminded of how much I still feel estranged from that culture. If anything people there seem to be doubling down on their more intransigent beliefs lately.

skookumchuck 8y ago

> The culture wars the republicans have been running on since the 80s turns off thoughtful people - anti-intellectualism There was plenty of anti-intellectualism in the US in the 70s. The movie "Revenge of the Nerds" wasn't made in a cultural vacuum. Neither was "Animal House". Sports heros have always been worshiped, not so with intellectuals (other than Einstein). Much of this changed with Bill Gates. He was derided for being a nerd for years, until he made so much money people stopped laughing at him.

taurath 8y ago
“Nerds” were derided as being relatively single-minded and unsocial, where to be successful in the business world at the time (and still now) meant communication and being able to easily form relationships. The nerds formed a new ladder from which to be successful and thereby respected - they’re powerful enough to take down the not-nerds. You’re not wrong about anti-intellectualism always being a thing though, point taken!