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I'm Brazilian so take my opinion with a bit o salt and pepper. I have no doubts our government circa 1985 was totally capable of such things. It was a military

I'm Brazilian so take my opinion with a bit o salt and pepper. I have no doubts our government circa 1985 was totally capable of such things. It was a military government, with lots of censorship (but 85 was they last days). So anything that could raise any question about our national identity was a threat for them. About the feasibility of atlantic crossings from west to east, mainly by odd, it's perfectly possible. The travel back otherwise is another history. Probably they mixed with our native inhabitants and they genes disappeared with the time (and with the arrival of portuguese in 1500). Even today, to question Brazilians national identity is tabu here.

alganet 7y ago
I can see the 85 government willing to do that (I'm brazillian as well). I doubt the Romans would arrive here though. They were not navy focused at all. There are detailed accounts of all sorts of trouble they went just to cross to Britain. At the same time, we had plenty of pre-culumbian tribes here who were masters at pottery (like the Marajoara culture). These are probably pottery jars from one of these cultures. I found funny what you said about this being a tabu. I don't feel that at all here in Brazil. On the contrary. Brazillians I know acknowledge the Pedra Furada site, for example, but most other countries ignore it, specially the US with their Clover first narrative.
- gcb0 7y ago
  > I found funny what you said about this being a tabu. I don't feel that at all here in Brazil. On the contrary. Brazillians I know acknowledge [...] do not mix up the current Brazil with the Brazil from a few years ago. under the worker's party Brazil had great recognition of native cultures and new museums. under the current, elected under a parliament coup (the preferred left candidate just left political prison last week, after a year without trial), all that is gone, and the biggest two museums with Indian artifacts burned to the ground in under three months, one barely showing in the midia.... so go figure. > I can see the 85 government willing to do that the current government has a general as vice president (and the president is a failed military career turned professional politician), and everyone in the education ministry are career military, just like the 60s. I find it odd that you can see the problem clearly on the previous coup but not on this one.
  - alganet 7y ago
    I'd rather not mix archaeology with politics. The museum fire was heartbreaking but to call it a conspiracy against our own history is too far fetched. Don't get me wrong. I despise the current government. I just don't think there's any conspiracy here.
    - gcb0 7y ago
      maybe the museums fire were just a coincidence, but read the news if you want more concrete conspiracies. there are thousands on native Brazilians protesting in brasilia today, and the biggest complaint is that their political representation is being systematically undermined: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2019/04/governo-bolsonaro-quer-dividir-movimento-indigena-dizem-lideres.shtml https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2019/04/governo-bolsonar...
      - alganet 7y ago
        This has nothing to do with whether the Romans arrived here in ancient times or not. We're in a deep polarized state right now and there's a popular urge to infuse any discussion with these political overtones. This might be needed for current themes like education and economy, but it has no stake whatsoever in ancient human expeditions across the atlantic.
  - rlander 7y ago
    > the preferred left candidate just left political prison last week, after a year without trial He was found guilty by no less than 20 different judges (in 3 different courts) half of which were appointed by the criminal (Lula) himself. And he’s still in prison, by the way.
    - gcb0 7y ago
      was not saying he was let go, after he made a year in practical solitary confiment (with visits from UN and the pope denied), he was allowed to have the law manbdated leaves and visits, which was already a victory.
- Anarch157a 7y ago
  Even if they did, they'd probably have arrived in the North-East, like Cabral did. But it's highly unlikely. I think the claim that the pots were reproductions, dumped in the bay to age, to be a lot more likely.
  - nonbel 7y ago
    > "I think the claim that the pots were reproductions, dumped in the bay to age, to be a lot more likely." That guy said there were only 16 of them, the archeologist said he found hundreds.
- felipemnoa 7y ago
  >>specially the US with their Clover first narrative. You lost me here. What are you referencing?
  - bergoid 7y ago
    "Clovis first" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture#Clovis_First/Single_origin_hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture#Clovis_First/...
jecel 7y ago
June 1985 was already several months after the end of the military government.

alganet 7y ago

I can see the 85 government willing to do that (I'm brazillian as well). I doubt the Romans would arrive here though. They were not navy focused at all. There are detailed accounts of all sorts of trouble they went just to cross to Britain. At the same time, we had plenty of pre-culumbian tribes here who were masters at pottery (like the Marajoara culture). These are probably pottery jars from one of these cultures. I found funny what you said about this being a tabu. I don't feel that at all here in Brazil. On the contrary. Brazillians I know acknowledge the Pedra Furada site, for example, but most other countries ignore it, specially the US with their Clover first narrative.

gcb0 7y ago
> I found funny what you said about this being a tabu. I don't feel that at all here in Brazil. On the contrary. Brazillians I know acknowledge [...] do not mix up the current Brazil with the Brazil from a few years ago. under the worker's party Brazil had great recognition of native cultures and new museums. under the current, elected under a parliament coup (the preferred left candidate just left political prison last week, after a year without trial), all that is gone, and the biggest two museums with Indian artifacts burned to the ground in under three months, one barely showing in the midia.... so go figure. > I can see the 85 government willing to do that the current government has a general as vice president (and the president is a failed military career turned professional politician), and everyone in the education ministry are career military, just like the 60s. I find it odd that you can see the problem clearly on the previous coup but not on this one.
- alganet 7y ago
  I'd rather not mix archaeology with politics. The museum fire was heartbreaking but to call it a conspiracy against our own history is too far fetched. Don't get me wrong. I despise the current government. I just don't think there's any conspiracy here.
  - gcb0 7y ago
    maybe the museums fire were just a coincidence, but read the news if you want more concrete conspiracies. there are thousands on native Brazilians protesting in brasilia today, and the biggest complaint is that their political representation is being systematically undermined: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2019/04/governo-bolsonaro-quer-dividir-movimento-indigena-dizem-lideres.shtml https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2019/04/governo-bolsonar...
    - alganet 7y ago
      This has nothing to do with whether the Romans arrived here in ancient times or not. We're in a deep polarized state right now and there's a popular urge to infuse any discussion with these political overtones. This might be needed for current themes like education and economy, but it has no stake whatsoever in ancient human expeditions across the atlantic.
- rlander 7y ago
  > the preferred left candidate just left political prison last week, after a year without trial He was found guilty by no less than 20 different judges (in 3 different courts) half of which were appointed by the criminal (Lula) himself. And he’s still in prison, by the way.
  - gcb0 7y ago
    was not saying he was let go, after he made a year in practical solitary confiment (with visits from UN and the pope denied), he was allowed to have the law manbdated leaves and visits, which was already a victory.
Anarch157a 7y ago
Even if they did, they'd probably have arrived in the North-East, like Cabral did. But it's highly unlikely. I think the claim that the pots were reproductions, dumped in the bay to age, to be a lot more likely.
- nonbel 7y ago
  > "I think the claim that the pots were reproductions, dumped in the bay to age, to be a lot more likely." That guy said there were only 16 of them, the archeologist said he found hundreds.
felipemnoa 7y ago
>>specially the US with their Clover first narrative. You lost me here. What are you referencing?
- bergoid 7y ago
  "Clovis first" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture#Clovis_First/Single_origin_hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture#Clovis_First/...

jecel 7y ago

June 1985 was already several months after the end of the military government.