4 ms·

The Romans were not good ship builders. I'm skeptic.

adolph 8y ago
That’s quite an assertion about a culture. As counterpoints: 1. The Romans were clearly quite mobile around the Med; 2. The Nemi ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemi_ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemi_ships
- alganet 8y ago
  The mediterranean is very calm, there's no way to compare that with crossing an ocean. Romans had trouble even to get into Britain (Ceasar almost died there in two failed expeditions). I should have phrased in another way as you said, though. It was not a fair assertion.
  - freeflight 8y ago
    I'm not sure comparing those two is really that useful. Wouldn't a large scale military invasion have vastly higher logistical requirements than sending out a purely exploratory party? Afaik many Roman soldiers were also quite wary of going to Britain, a land they considered even more foreign and savage than Germania, which probably added to the Roman struggle of gaining any foothold.
- mr_toad 8y ago
  > Nemi ships A large flat bottomed oared “ship” (more of a barge really) is the last thing you’d want to try crossing the Atlantic in.
jdietrich 8y ago
You don't need to be a good ship builder to cross the Atlantic. Thanks to the North Equatorial Current, you can launch almost any buoyant object off the West African coast and it'll wash up somewhere on the east coast of the American continent. You don't need sails, you don't need oars, you don't even need a tiller; you just need buoyancy, enough fresh water to survive the trip and the knowledge that the current exists. The Atlantic has been crossed on an array of utterly unsuitable craft including rafts, survival capsules and inflatable dinghies; an elderly French man is currently attempting to cross in a large wine barrel. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/frenchman-jean-jacques-savin-adrift-in-barrel-hopes-for-land-on-horizon-after-100-days-mjxqwsdf0 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/frenchman-jean-jacques-sa...
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  To end up in the Americas you'd first have to catch the Canary current. It's not certain that the Romans went that far south, although the Periplus Hannonis attests that a Carthaginian expedition sailed as far as Mount Cameroon. From the Periplus Maris Erythraei we know that the India trade was well established in Roman times, but crossing the Arabian Sea and crossing the Atlantic are two different things. One you can do in a dhow, the other not so much.
- GlennS 8y ago
  This news story absolutely made my day. What a legend.
tim333 8y ago
They seemed to have made some ok ones > Roman merchant ships are depicted in multiple frescoes and friezes. They look surprisingly similar to ships used by the Spanish and Portuguese in the 15th century. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-a-Roman-galley-was-found-sunk-off-the-coast-of-Brazil https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-a-Roman-galley-was-fou... And maintained a presence on the Canary Islands, same general direction. Presumably some ship heading for the Canarys could have blown off course towards Brazil? Also >In the modern day, it is not especially unusual for fishermen from the coast of Africa to be caught in storms and carried across the Atlantic to Brazil. https://www.quora.com/Have-they-proved-that-Ancient-Romans-reached-the-Americas https://www.quora.com/Have-they-proved-that-Ancient-Romans-r...

That’s quite an assertion about a culture. As counterpoints: 1. The Romans were clearly quite mobile around the Med; 2. The Nemi ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemi_ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemi_ships

alganet 8y ago
The mediterranean is very calm, there's no way to compare that with crossing an ocean. Romans had trouble even to get into Britain (Ceasar almost died there in two failed expeditions). I should have phrased in another way as you said, though. It was not a fair assertion.
- freeflight 8y ago
  I'm not sure comparing those two is really that useful. Wouldn't a large scale military invasion have vastly higher logistical requirements than sending out a purely exploratory party? Afaik many Roman soldiers were also quite wary of going to Britain, a land they considered even more foreign and savage than Germania, which probably added to the Roman struggle of gaining any foothold.
mr_toad 8y ago
> Nemi ships A large flat bottomed oared “ship” (more of a barge really) is the last thing you’d want to try crossing the Atlantic in.

jdietrich 8y ago

You don't need to be a good ship builder to cross the Atlantic. Thanks to the North Equatorial Current, you can launch almost any buoyant object off the West African coast and it'll wash up somewhere on the east coast of the American continent. You don't need sails, you don't need oars, you don't even need a tiller; you just need buoyancy, enough fresh water to survive the trip and the knowledge that the current exists. The Atlantic has been crossed on an array of utterly unsuitable craft including rafts, survival capsules and inflatable dinghies; an elderly French man is currently attempting to cross in a large wine barrel. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/frenchman-jean-jacques-savin-adrift-in-barrel-hopes-for-land-on-horizon-after-100-days-mjxqwsdf0 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/frenchman-jean-jacques-sa...

HarryHirsch 8y ago
To end up in the Americas you'd first have to catch the Canary current. It's not certain that the Romans went that far south, although the Periplus Hannonis attests that a Carthaginian expedition sailed as far as Mount Cameroon. From the Periplus Maris Erythraei we know that the India trade was well established in Roman times, but crossing the Arabian Sea and crossing the Atlantic are two different things. One you can do in a dhow, the other not so much.
GlennS 8y ago
This news story absolutely made my day. What a legend.

tim333 8y ago

They seemed to have made some ok ones > Roman merchant ships are depicted in multiple frescoes and friezes. They look surprisingly similar to ships used by the Spanish and Portuguese in the 15th century. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-a-Roman-galley-was-found-sunk-off-the-coast-of-Brazil https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-a-Roman-galley-was-fou... And maintained a presence on the Canary Islands, same general direction. Presumably some ship heading for the Canarys could have blown off course towards Brazil? Also >In the modern day, it is not especially unusual for fishermen from the coast of Africa to be caught in storms and carried across the Atlantic to Brazil. https://www.quora.com/Have-they-proved-that-Ancient-Romans-reached-the-Americas https://www.quora.com/Have-they-proved-that-Ancient-Romans-r...