3 ms·
And 2 days later, way down-thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19766017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19766017 ) > > So when you say "the rela
by igouy 8y ago
And 2 days later, way down-thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19766017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19766017 )
> > So when you say "the relative speed of those languages" you actually mean the relative speed of programs?
> No, I mean the relative speed of programs with some carefully chosen relation between them. For example, there is a big difference between "relative income of individuals" and "relative income of social groups," even though the latter could be reduced to the former. Whether a comparison of individuals is meaningful as a comparison of groups depends on how the individuals are chosen and aggregated.
You can choose which program measurements to compare.
> > We can make mystery for ourselves — no one can force us to understand.
> True, but when a website chooses to present data in some aggregate way that seems to defy any familiar forms of aggregation and reasoning without so much as stating what the meaning of the presentation is, it is itself mysterious.
You have not shown that is what that website does.
I agree that it is possible that the comparisons are not worthless, but without any statement of a hypothesis, it is the most reasonable conclusion.
Yet another tendentious assertion!
Program X measured less than Program Y.
I am sure that the authors of the website would agree that if they don't even attempt to say what the meaning of the comparisons is, even in their own minds, it is reasonable to assume it means nothing.
Once more, you are putting your thoughts and words in others' mouths.
- pron 8y ago> You can choose which program measurements to compare. Yes, but the website also chooses, and it is the website's choice that I think is bad. Also, it doesn't seem like the game even has comparable programs in some/many/most cases. > You have not shown that is what that website does. How can I show what a website doesn't do? If you think they say what the hypothesis is, show me. I haven't been able to find it. > Program X measured less than Program Y. First of all, when something means nothing other than itself, we say it has no meaning. If the comparisons on the website are meant to suggest nothing more than just their own definition, then they are meaningless. Also -- come on. The website presents comparisons for specific choices of X and Y. What is the meaning of the choice and the resulting comparison? Your position that it's not meant to mean anything (other than itself), sounds disingenuous because the website still makes some very specific choices that seem to hint at a meaning (e.g. why not compare the second fastest programs between languages instead of the fastest?) yet the meaning is never explained. Anyway, we're going in circles.
- igouy 8y ago> … comparable programs… For someones definition of "comparable". > How can I show what a website doesn't do? You can try to show your claim — "… chooses to present data in some aggregate way that seems to defy any familiar forms of aggregation and reasoning…" — has some basis in reality. > … when something means nothing other than itself, we say it has no meaning. That may be what you say. Show why we should think that's what people interested in "Why did Clojure gain so much popularity?" would say. > … why not compare the second fastest programs between languages instead of the fastest? Inexplicable! Or obvious: there would need to be two programs for each, rather than one. > Anyway, we're going in circles. I agree, you repeat your assertions without establishing anything.