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> very few people would say that a "healthy" labor market has no minimum wage or discrimination protections ... Unfortunately, you're talking to one of those f

> very few people would say that a "healthy" labor market has no minimum wage or discrimination protections ... Unfortunately, you're talking to one of those few people. I'm against government mandating minimum wages or mandatory maternity/paternity leave. If you want those things, you can try to negotiate for it. > customers already seem not thrilled with surge pricing This is a true statement, but I wonder about these people. I don't share their view.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
Government mandate minimum wages and mandatory parental leave are the result of people having negotiated for them.
- Simon_says 7y ago
  It's a strange negotiation that prevents me from entering into another contract with a third party ...
  - infinite8s 7y ago
    You can - move to a country that doesn't provide those.
    - Simon_says 7y ago
      You can move to a country that does.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
Negotiating for everything is not the most efficient way of conducting business for society as a whole. Negotiating offers the benefit of price discovery, but it also consumes resources in the form of opportunity cost with other things that could have been done with that time and effort. Yes, we can expose the reality that most people aren't economically worth enough right now to demand parental leave or living conditions, but what is the benefit of exposing that? It's not like figuring out the true price of a product is low because it's low quality, so if people stop buying it then the producer will stop making it. The people that aren't worth enough, whether it be because they are lazy, stupid, came across an illness, born into a poor family and never had the opportunity and mentors to teach them, should we just let them rot away?
- Simon_says 7y ago
  > Yes, we can expose the reality that most people aren't economically worth enough right now to demand parental leave or living conditions, but what is the benefit of exposing that? The benefit would be discouraging people from having kids they can't afford and not forcing employers to pay employees who aren't working. If you want to get paid for work you're not doing, you should at least have a conversation with your employer about it. You bring up an interesting point about efficiency, and regarding most other things, I would agree with you, but your employment is one of the most important things in your life, so it's worthwhile to do the work to understand your contract.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    The benefit would be discouraging people from having kids they can't afford Perhaps you haven't noticed, but all the evidence would suggest that that isn't working. You can't just not pay people and they magically stop fucking. Rather, the framework is broken. When we hyper-individualise everything, we end up with a world people can come to frame thoughts like the one you've expressed. A world where everyone must own one of everything, and a spare, in order to survive. Where betterment is defined as having more and better things to throw in the garbage heap. So that future archeologists may dig up our society and find the last of the great cetaceans, beached, with their bellies full of custom gift cards with your face printed on it. And that is a sad state of affairs. The more educated people are the fewer children they have. And we continue to price more and more people out of education because they lost the birth lottery.
  - geofft 7y ago
    If biological entities whose entire purpose is to have kids can't afford to have kids, that's an indictment of the system that charges so much to have kids, not of the organisms fulfilling their biological imperative.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago

Government mandate minimum wages and mandatory parental leave are the result of people having negotiated for them.

Simon_says 7y ago
It's a strange negotiation that prevents me from entering into another contract with a third party ...
- infinite8s 7y ago
  You can - move to a country that doesn't provide those.
  - Simon_says 7y ago
    You can move to a country that does.

lotsofpulp 7y ago

Negotiating for everything is not the most efficient way of conducting business for society as a whole. Negotiating offers the benefit of price discovery, but it also consumes resources in the form of opportunity cost with other things that could have been done with that time and effort. Yes, we can expose the reality that most people aren't economically worth enough right now to demand parental leave or living conditions, but what is the benefit of exposing that? It's not like figuring out the true price of a product is low because it's low quality, so if people stop buying it then the producer will stop making it. The people that aren't worth enough, whether it be because they are lazy, stupid, came across an illness, born into a poor family and never had the opportunity and mentors to teach them, should we just let them rot away?

Simon_says 7y ago
> Yes, we can expose the reality that most people aren't economically worth enough right now to demand parental leave or living conditions, but what is the benefit of exposing that? The benefit would be discouraging people from having kids they can't afford and not forcing employers to pay employees who aren't working. If you want to get paid for work you're not doing, you should at least have a conversation with your employer about it. You bring up an interesting point about efficiency, and regarding most other things, I would agree with you, but your employment is one of the most important things in your life, so it's worthwhile to do the work to understand your contract.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  The benefit would be discouraging people from having kids they can't afford Perhaps you haven't noticed, but all the evidence would suggest that that isn't working. You can't just not pay people and they magically stop fucking. Rather, the framework is broken. When we hyper-individualise everything, we end up with a world people can come to frame thoughts like the one you've expressed. A world where everyone must own one of everything, and a spare, in order to survive. Where betterment is defined as having more and better things to throw in the garbage heap. So that future archeologists may dig up our society and find the last of the great cetaceans, beached, with their bellies full of custom gift cards with your face printed on it. And that is a sad state of affairs. The more educated people are the fewer children they have. And we continue to price more and more people out of education because they lost the birth lottery.
- geofft 7y ago
  If biological entities whose entire purpose is to have kids can't afford to have kids, that's an indictment of the system that charges so much to have kids, not of the organisms fulfilling their biological imperative.