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While an interesting perspective, I do have to question whether this is simply a matter of the author preferring Webster's prescriptive nuances over more descri

by cge 7y ago

While an interesting perspective, I do have to question whether this is simply a matter of the author preferring Webster's prescriptive nuances over more descriptive approaches, even when those nuances do not appear supported by use. Taking the example they use, fustian, the OED does not include the idea that it refers specifically to a mismatch between topic and style, and gives numerous examples, from Marlowe onward, of its use without that aspect.

derefr 7y ago
Is there any reason to attempt to capture, as you're seemingly describing, the intersection of the usages of a word; the "beige" of definitions? Would it not make more sense to instead describe all the various shades of usage that the word has had emplaced within it by various writers' hands—at least those put forth with enough force for those shades to be recognized and understood by readers today—even if those usages are peculiar and non-standard? Analogously: if there were to be a book of acrylic paint swatches that described, for each pigment swatch, what things that color resembles, I wouldn't care much for descriptions that held themselves to the standard of applicability in all possible lighting conditions. There are very few pigments that look the same no matter the lighting (maybe some really vivid reds, and Vantablack.) Rather, I would want separate descriptions of what the color would seem to best resemble under various potential lighting conditions, even if those conditions are rare or even unnatural. As the artist doing the painting, I'm not necessarily constrained by a particular lighting condition; I can change the lighting to suit the pigment just as well as I can choose the pigment to suit the lighting (those being two different artistic projects; sometimes you really are painting the Cistene chapel and can't choose how it's lit, but that doesn't mean you can't find inspiration for a different project in the middle of doing so.) As the writer, if I find an inspiring, yet effectively-unknown definition of a word—well, that's a good opportunity to put that definition to work in my writing in a way that leads people to expand their conception of the word to include my new pet definition.
- hcs 7y ago
  If you're looking for inspiration, I don't think that what you're looking for is what we call a dictionary. Unless you're using the word "dictionary" in a poetic sense, or generally the senses of words inspire you.
- marak830 7y ago
  Don't most dictionaries do this to an extent? A description, a pronunciation guide then an example or two? In the world of digital books though, you would be able to freatpy expand upon those examples(and even including blurbs about the usage of said word).
aasasd 7y ago
From my experience with Wiktionary which uses Webster's as the basis, it's exactly descriptive and has the different meanings that are in use. If OED has one meaning, it doesn't mean that people don't use other ones. It happens that Wiktionary doesn't have one of meanings, but very rare.

by cge 7y ago

derefr 7y ago

Is there any reason to attempt to capture, as you're seemingly describing, the intersection of the usages of a word; the "beige" of definitions? Would it not make more sense to instead describe all the various shades of usage that the word has had emplaced within it by various writers' hands—at least those put forth with enough force for those shades to be recognized and understood by readers today—even if those usages are peculiar and non-standard? Analogously: if there were to be a book of acrylic paint swatches that described, for each pigment swatch, what things that color resembles, I wouldn't care much for descriptions that held themselves to the standard of applicability in all possible lighting conditions. There are very few pigments that look the same no matter the lighting (maybe some really vivid reds, and Vantablack.) Rather, I would want separate descriptions of what the color would seem to best resemble under various potential lighting conditions, even if those conditions are rare or even unnatural. As the artist doing the painting, I'm not necessarily constrained by a particular lighting condition; I can change the lighting to suit the pigment just as well as I can choose the pigment to suit the lighting (those being two different artistic projects; sometimes you really are painting the Cistene chapel and can't choose how it's lit, but that doesn't mean you can't find inspiration for a different project in the middle of doing so.) As the writer, if I find an inspiring, yet effectively-unknown definition of a word—well, that's a good opportunity to put that definition to work in my writing in a way that leads people to expand their conception of the word to include my new pet definition.

hcs 7y ago
If you're looking for inspiration, I don't think that what you're looking for is what we call a dictionary. Unless you're using the word "dictionary" in a poetic sense, or generally the senses of words inspire you.
marak830 7y ago
Don't most dictionaries do this to an extent? A description, a pronunciation guide then an example or two? In the world of digital books though, you would be able to freatpy expand upon those examples(and even including blurbs about the usage of said word).

aasasd 7y ago

From my experience with Wiktionary which uses Webster's as the basis, it's exactly descriptive and has the different meanings that are in use. If OED has one meaning, it doesn't mean that people don't use other ones. It happens that Wiktionary doesn't have one of meanings, but very rare.