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My experience day-to-day is that the world is strongly divided between those who care a lot about crypto and those who care effectively none. Barring the brief

by RickS 7y ago

My experience day-to-day is that the world is strongly divided between those who care a lot about crypto and those who care effectively none. Barring the brief time around peak prices where it punched through to the zeitgeist (when your uber driver is asking about it), it doesn't seem like it's growing, from the perspective of social/cultural demand or narrative. There is a plenty healthy subset of the world population keeping cryptocurrencies liquid. But this etrade offering represents, to me at least, a level of commoditization that outpaces the underlying demand. In part because coinbase captures that demand very effectively, hence their valuation. I expect etrade's gains here are going to be from capturing new funds from current customers, rather than actually winning the crypto buying customer experience, where coinbase reigns supreme. Speaking of coinbase, if etrade had to copy one thing of theirs, i wish it were the UI. Another thought: how much of crypto's valuation comes from the contrarian narrative that it's a rebellion against exactly the stodgy old guard that etrade represents? Gold's contrarian narrative has survived the commoditization of gold trading. Will crypto's? Whether buy into it because it's a get rich quick scheme or a genuine financial disruption, both of those stories rely on a narrative that it's different/exempt from wall street bullshit. can that narrative exist in a world where the primary interface with the market is wall street bullshit? The idea of a goldbug hedging against the apocalypse by buying gold on etrade is very, very funny to me. Crypto's a little better positioned since etrade doesn't own the blockchain, but gold's safe from a power outage. Apples and oranges... No idea tbh.

Consultant32452 7y ago
I was recently surprised to see that I could order products off overstock.com with Bitcoin. PewDiePie recently started live streaming exclusively on a crypto coin based platform, d-live. I agree with your general sentiment, but I am starting to see wider use and acceptance of crypto coins.
- RickS 7y ago
  The overstock thing doesn't interest me much, for the same reasons as etrade. Has the smell of old guard playing catchup, whether to hedge against unlikely success, or just because that's the kind of thing that inept monoliths are prone to do. The pewdiepie thing is very interesting to me. He, like fortnight, is responsible for shaping the norms of the next generation. If fortnight decided to make bitcoin the only way to get currency into the game I'd be long bitcoin. Because whatever 12 year olds are doing today is whatever's going to be google-sized in 2040. So that's a neat thought. I'm not familiar with D-Live. Looked it up real fast. It looks like... a whole bunch of nothing, that I don't know why I should care about it, or why it's a thing... I have three reactions to that: 1) I just turned 30 and, right on time, don't know shit about what young people are into. D-live could be a big deal and I'm miscalibrated. 2) D-live is actually a fledgling thing, and they're paying pewdiepie loads of cash to do this. The platform, from a messaging perspective, basically IS pewdiepie. He may also be behind d-live in some meaningful way, or otherwise stand to get crazy rich(er) from this. 3) D-live is to speech what crypto is to finance: amidst privacy woes, hate speech, censorship, deplatforming, and runaway algos, there's a cultural demand for disruption and alternative ecosystems that allow people who feel marginalized by the current ecosystem to escape to a new eden. Crypto feels like it's gotten a handful of false starts and failure to launch in narrative-space with this idea. But it feels like the speech/platform version of this same narrative is just beginning to take hold, and with a lot more early steam. If crypto can interweave itself within that larger cultural shift, and manage to hang on? Maybe that could work.
- cookingrobot 7y ago
  Overstock does more than just accept bitcoin for purchases - they’re so bullish on crypto they’re planning to sell their retail business to focus entirely on blockchain. https://www.google.com/amp/s/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4224884-overstock-blockchain-free https://www.google.com/amp/s/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/42...
jnurmine 7y ago
I never understood why, if the situation becomes so bad that government-issued money is worthless, would people prefer gold instead of, say, water, toilet paper, medicine, access to a dentist, and so on?
- DINKDINK 7y ago
  >why [...] would people prefer gold instead of, say, water, toilet paper.. "Hi here's your monthly pay it's $5,000 of toilet paper. Where would you like me to park the truck that's full of it?" The purpose of a money as a technology is to be a highly salable good that stores wealth across time and space. Taking your salary in toilet paper isn't good because it's not as salable and it also can rot and degrade. If someone tells you that it's good your money rots because then everyone will have to work more than if their money was more robust (inflation) they're probably the person that can create money costlessly but charge you for it (a bank). If they claim that it's bad if the amount of money required to produce something decreases (deflation) when reducing the consumptive inputs (labor, materials, yes even money) creates a more efficient product, is less demanding on the planet, they are probably that gain their wealth from taxing and taking your things (states).
  - keymone 7y ago
    > Hi here's your monthly pay it's $5,000 of toilet paper. Where would you like me to park the truck that's full of it? Don’t know if you realize this, but that’s literally what was happening in Ukraine (and probably elsewhere) during 90s after USSR collapse. People were paid with products of factories they worked on. Toilet paper, teapot sets, boxes of matches, etc. not fun times.
    - exelius 7y ago
      Supposedly Russian sailors were paid in vodka during the same period.
    - DINKDINK 7y ago
      >Don’t know if you realize this Yes, it's what I was referring to. Trade will occur regardless of what happens. If factories run out of a fiat money, they'll offer to trade the factory outputs for worker labor. It's just that the people with the most performant money will survive the best.
TylerE 7y ago
There is also a third group, those that care strongly about crypto because they believe it is a bad, bad idea.
dead_mall 7y ago
Downtrending? Power outage? Do you even solar panel? Gold is safe? It doesn't seem like it's growing? What? Get rich scheme? Rebellion? You seem to be a victim of fake news, trust in your government, and or just don't know how actually big the crypto space is. Haven't you heard? Bitcoin is the new Gold. It IS a genuine financial disruption, hence the absurd Bitcoin bubble which has not popped... The last recent Bullrun to 20k was merely just a peek of it's future price, and an introduction to the mass of the new technology & products that will be used in the upcoming fourth industrial revolution that is around the corner along with Elon's self landing space rockets and auto-driving vehicles. A company/project can now put their valuation on a Coin (with a specific supply amount) and skip the whole government printed fiat regulatory process. Tell me how that's not a game changer in this corporate world. People confuse Cryptocurrencies for a get rich quick scheme because of the Scammers. But, They are also the same people who can't envision the next, Xerox, Amazon, or any other megacorp. Do you know what happens when you invest into these companies/coins before they go big? You Get-Rich-Quick! Everything about cryptocurrencies makes it the perfect hedge from it being a borderless asset, decentralized and a 24/7 market. Trading cryptos IS the new thing on wall street, If you have not noticed already.
- diab0lic 7y ago
  I can't tell if this is satire or not but in the event of a loss of power on a large scale, say in a government collapse, a solar panel won't do you much good without the rest of the internet infrastructure. > The last recent Bullrun to 20k was merely just a peek of it's future price, and an introduction to the mass of the new technology & products that will be used in the upcoming fourth industrial revolution that is around the corner You accuse the parent of being s victim to fake news and then make a wildly unsubstantiated claim as though it were fact. > skip the whole government printed fiat regulatory process The regulatory processes prevent the Bitfinex, Tether, Mt. Gox, Quadrigas, Bitconnects, etc... And that's just off the top of my head. > Trading cryptos IS the new thing on wall street, If you have not noticed already You're vastly overstating the influence of crypto on wall street.
  - dead_mall 7y ago
oldjokes 7y ago
You don't need to ask a bunch of questions and use waffle phrases, this is not a complicated space. Cryptocurrencies are a silly scam and people who love new scams gravitate towards it, most other people don't care.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by RickS 7y ago

Consultant32452 7y ago

I was recently surprised to see that I could order products off overstock.com with Bitcoin. PewDiePie recently started live streaming exclusively on a crypto coin based platform, d-live. I agree with your general sentiment, but I am starting to see wider use and acceptance of crypto coins.

RickS 7y ago
The overstock thing doesn't interest me much, for the same reasons as etrade. Has the smell of old guard playing catchup, whether to hedge against unlikely success, or just because that's the kind of thing that inept monoliths are prone to do. The pewdiepie thing is very interesting to me. He, like fortnight, is responsible for shaping the norms of the next generation. If fortnight decided to make bitcoin the only way to get currency into the game I'd be long bitcoin. Because whatever 12 year olds are doing today is whatever's going to be google-sized in 2040. So that's a neat thought. I'm not familiar with D-Live. Looked it up real fast. It looks like... a whole bunch of nothing, that I don't know why I should care about it, or why it's a thing... I have three reactions to that: 1) I just turned 30 and, right on time, don't know shit about what young people are into. D-live could be a big deal and I'm miscalibrated. 2) D-live is actually a fledgling thing, and they're paying pewdiepie loads of cash to do this. The platform, from a messaging perspective, basically IS pewdiepie. He may also be behind d-live in some meaningful way, or otherwise stand to get crazy rich(er) from this. 3) D-live is to speech what crypto is to finance: amidst privacy woes, hate speech, censorship, deplatforming, and runaway algos, there's a cultural demand for disruption and alternative ecosystems that allow people who feel marginalized by the current ecosystem to escape to a new eden. Crypto feels like it's gotten a handful of false starts and failure to launch in narrative-space with this idea. But it feels like the speech/platform version of this same narrative is just beginning to take hold, and with a lot more early steam. If crypto can interweave itself within that larger cultural shift, and manage to hang on? Maybe that could work.
cookingrobot 7y ago
Overstock does more than just accept bitcoin for purchases - they’re so bullish on crypto they’re planning to sell their retail business to focus entirely on blockchain. https://www.google.com/amp/s/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4224884-overstock-blockchain-free https://www.google.com/amp/s/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/42...

jnurmine 7y ago

I never understood why, if the situation becomes so bad that government-issued money is worthless, would people prefer gold instead of, say, water, toilet paper, medicine, access to a dentist, and so on?

DINKDINK 7y ago
>why [...] would people prefer gold instead of, say, water, toilet paper.. "Hi here's your monthly pay it's $5,000 of toilet paper. Where would you like me to park the truck that's full of it?" The purpose of a money as a technology is to be a highly salable good that stores wealth across time and space. Taking your salary in toilet paper isn't good because it's not as salable and it also can rot and degrade. If someone tells you that it's good your money rots because then everyone will have to work more than if their money was more robust (inflation) they're probably the person that can create money costlessly but charge you for it (a bank). If they claim that it's bad if the amount of money required to produce something decreases (deflation) when reducing the consumptive inputs (labor, materials, yes even money) creates a more efficient product, is less demanding on the planet, they are probably that gain their wealth from taxing and taking your things (states).
- keymone 7y ago
  > Hi here's your monthly pay it's $5,000 of toilet paper. Where would you like me to park the truck that's full of it? Don’t know if you realize this, but that’s literally what was happening in Ukraine (and probably elsewhere) during 90s after USSR collapse. People were paid with products of factories they worked on. Toilet paper, teapot sets, boxes of matches, etc. not fun times.
  - exelius 7y ago
    Supposedly Russian sailors were paid in vodka during the same period.
  - DINKDINK 7y ago
    >Don’t know if you realize this Yes, it's what I was referring to. Trade will occur regardless of what happens. If factories run out of a fiat money, they'll offer to trade the factory outputs for worker labor. It's just that the people with the most performant money will survive the best.

TylerE 7y ago

There is also a third group, those that care strongly about crypto because they believe it is a bad, bad idea.

dead_mall 7y ago

Downtrending? Power outage? Do you even solar panel? Gold is safe? It doesn't seem like it's growing? What? Get rich scheme? Rebellion? You seem to be a victim of fake news, trust in your government, and or just don't know how actually big the crypto space is. Haven't you heard? Bitcoin is the new Gold. It IS a genuine financial disruption, hence the absurd Bitcoin bubble which has not popped... The last recent Bullrun to 20k was merely just a peek of it's future price, and an introduction to the mass of the new technology & products that will be used in the upcoming fourth industrial revolution that is around the corner along with Elon's self landing space rockets and auto-driving vehicles. A company/project can now put their valuation on a Coin (with a specific supply amount) and skip the whole government printed fiat regulatory process. Tell me how that's not a game changer in this corporate world. People confuse Cryptocurrencies for a get rich quick scheme because of the Scammers. But, They are also the same people who can't envision the next, Xerox, Amazon, or any other megacorp. Do you know what happens when you invest into these companies/coins before they go big? You Get-Rich-Quick! Everything about cryptocurrencies makes it the perfect hedge from it being a borderless asset, decentralized and a 24/7 market. Trading cryptos IS the new thing on wall street, If you have not noticed already.

diab0lic 7y ago
I can't tell if this is satire or not but in the event of a loss of power on a large scale, say in a government collapse, a solar panel won't do you much good without the rest of the internet infrastructure. > The last recent Bullrun to 20k was merely just a peek of it's future price, and an introduction to the mass of the new technology & products that will be used in the upcoming fourth industrial revolution that is around the corner You accuse the parent of being s victim to fake news and then make a wildly unsubstantiated claim as though it were fact. > skip the whole government printed fiat regulatory process The regulatory processes prevent the Bitfinex, Tether, Mt. Gox, Quadrigas, Bitconnects, etc... And that's just off the top of my head. > Trading cryptos IS the new thing on wall street, If you have not noticed already You're vastly overstating the influence of crypto on wall street.
- dead_mall 7y ago

oldjokes 7y ago

You don't need to ask a bunch of questions and use waffle phrases, this is not a complicated space. Cryptocurrencies are a silly scam and people who love new scams gravitate towards it, most other people don't care.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]