7 ms·

ETrade is presumably very cautious to get started, and very slow to move when they do, by nature of their maturity, scale, and industry context. So they're taki

by RickS 7y ago

ETrade is presumably very cautious to get started, and very slow to move when they do, by nature of their maturity, scale, and industry context. So they're taking many multiples longer than someone like coinbase, for example, to spin up this type of thing. So this initiative probably started years back. Is this late-launching residue from bitcoin's 20k days when this would have been, if not less silly, at least less silly looking? Is this evidence that some big names in finance have been deliberately understating their interest in the space, while scrambling beneath the surface to spin up offerings? If the rest of the players in this space also support crypto, it starts to be genuinely commoditized, and maybe that could help it. But if you commoditize something that nobody cares about... does it matter? does it help?

wolco 7y ago
I believe the push from 7000 to 20000 was big players like etrade or Sachs. The volume of block movement seemed uniformed at the time.
- coralreef 7y ago
  You mean printing of tethers by Bitfinex.
  - keymone 7y ago
    That bitfinex is shady is no doubt, but if all these stories about printed tether were true - it would have collapsed long ago.
  - wolco 7y ago
    No bitcoin itself
coralreef 7y ago
Nobody cares about crypto? 6 months ago Coinbase raised $300m at $8b valuation. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/cryptocurrency-start-up-coinbase-valued-at-8-billion-despite-bitcoins-plunge.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/cryptocurrency-start-up-coin...
- RickS 7y ago
  My experience day-to-day is that the world is strongly divided between those who care a lot about crypto and those who care effectively none. Barring the brief time around peak prices where it punched through to the zeitgeist (when your uber driver is asking about it), it doesn't seem like it's growing, from the perspective of social/cultural demand or narrative. There is a plenty healthy subset of the world population keeping cryptocurrencies liquid. But this etrade offering represents, to me at least, a level of commoditization that outpaces the underlying demand. In part because coinbase captures that demand very effectively, hence their valuation. I expect etrade's gains here are going to be from capturing new funds from current customers, rather than actually winning the crypto buying customer experience, where coinbase reigns supreme. Speaking of coinbase, if etrade had to copy one thing of theirs, i wish it were the UI. Another thought: how much of crypto's valuation comes from the contrarian narrative that it's a rebellion against exactly the stodgy old guard that etrade represents? Gold's contrarian narrative has survived the commoditization of gold trading. Will crypto's? Whether buy into it because it's a get rich quick scheme or a genuine financial disruption, both of those stories rely on a narrative that it's different/exempt from wall street bullshit. can that narrative exist in a world where the primary interface with the market is wall street bullshit? The idea of a goldbug hedging against the apocalypse by buying gold on etrade is very, very funny to me. Crypto's a little better positioned since etrade doesn't own the blockchain, but gold's safe from a power outage. Apples and oranges... No idea tbh.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    I was recently surprised to see that I could order products off overstock.com with Bitcoin. PewDiePie recently started live streaming exclusively on a crypto coin based platform, d-live. I agree with your general sentiment, but I am starting to see wider use and acceptance of crypto coins.
    - RickS 7y ago
      The overstock thing doesn't interest me much, for the same reasons as etrade. Has the smell of old guard playing catchup, whether to hedge against unlikely success, or just because that's the kind of thing that inept monoliths are prone to do. The pewdiepie thing is very interesting to me. He, like fortnight, is responsible for shaping the norms of the next generation. If fortnight decided to make bitcoin the only way to get currency into the game I'd be long bitcoin. Because whatever 12 year olds are doing today is whatever's going to be google-sized in 2040. So that's a neat thought. I'm not familiar with D-Live. Looked it up real fast. It looks like... a whole bunch of nothing, that I don't know why I should care about it, or why it's a thing... I have three reactions to that: 1) I just turned 30 and, right on time, don't know shit about what young people are into. D-live could be a big deal and I'm miscalibrated. 2) D-live is actually a fledgling thing, and they're paying pewdiepie loads of cash to do this. The platform, from a messaging perspective, basically IS pewdiepie. He may also be behind d-live in some meaningful way, or otherwise stand to get crazy rich(er) from this. 3) D-live is to speech what crypto is to finance: amidst privacy woes, hate speech, censorship, deplatforming, and runaway algos, there's a cultural demand for disruption and alternative ecosystems that allow people who feel marginalized by the current ecosystem to escape to a new eden. Crypto feels like it's gotten a handful of false starts and failure to launch in narrative-space with this idea. But it feels like the speech/platform version of this same narrative is just beginning to take hold, and with a lot more early steam. If crypto can interweave itself within that larger cultural shift, and manage to hang on? Maybe that could work.
whttheuuu 7y ago
bitcoin is just getting started..
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> if you commoditize something that nobody cares about I think cryptocurrencies are an obvious trash fire. I also think they contain all the elements (flow information asymmetry, bad price transparency and consistency, high technical volatility, and zero capacity for fundamental edge) that make it quite profitable to make markets in, i.e to be the house in respect of. Combine that with the general culture around cryptocurrencies, which I suspect is averse to litigation, and you have a supremely profitable business. One need not love what they trade. (I do see an ethical issue with selling retail customers such products.)
DennisP 7y ago
Seems to me that launching at the peak of a bubble is a lot sillier. Launching after a deep bear market when it's been back in an uptrend for four months is pretty reasonable, and more likely to be good for your customers.

by RickS 7y ago

wolco 7y ago

I believe the push from 7000 to 20000 was big players like etrade or Sachs. The volume of block movement seemed uniformed at the time.

coralreef 7y ago
You mean printing of tethers by Bitfinex.
- keymone 7y ago
  That bitfinex is shady is no doubt, but if all these stories about printed tether were true - it would have collapsed long ago.
- wolco 7y ago
  No bitcoin itself

coralreef 7y ago

Nobody cares about crypto? 6 months ago Coinbase raised $300m at $8b valuation. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/cryptocurrency-start-up-coinbase-valued-at-8-billion-despite-bitcoins-plunge.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/cryptocurrency-start-up-coin...

RickS 7y ago
My experience day-to-day is that the world is strongly divided between those who care a lot about crypto and those who care effectively none. Barring the brief time around peak prices where it punched through to the zeitgeist (when your uber driver is asking about it), it doesn't seem like it's growing, from the perspective of social/cultural demand or narrative. There is a plenty healthy subset of the world population keeping cryptocurrencies liquid. But this etrade offering represents, to me at least, a level of commoditization that outpaces the underlying demand. In part because coinbase captures that demand very effectively, hence their valuation. I expect etrade's gains here are going to be from capturing new funds from current customers, rather than actually winning the crypto buying customer experience, where coinbase reigns supreme. Speaking of coinbase, if etrade had to copy one thing of theirs, i wish it were the UI. Another thought: how much of crypto's valuation comes from the contrarian narrative that it's a rebellion against exactly the stodgy old guard that etrade represents? Gold's contrarian narrative has survived the commoditization of gold trading. Will crypto's? Whether buy into it because it's a get rich quick scheme or a genuine financial disruption, both of those stories rely on a narrative that it's different/exempt from wall street bullshit. can that narrative exist in a world where the primary interface with the market is wall street bullshit? The idea of a goldbug hedging against the apocalypse by buying gold on etrade is very, very funny to me. Crypto's a little better positioned since etrade doesn't own the blockchain, but gold's safe from a power outage. Apples and oranges... No idea tbh.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  I was recently surprised to see that I could order products off overstock.com with Bitcoin. PewDiePie recently started live streaming exclusively on a crypto coin based platform, d-live. I agree with your general sentiment, but I am starting to see wider use and acceptance of crypto coins.
  - RickS 7y ago
    The overstock thing doesn't interest me much, for the same reasons as etrade. Has the smell of old guard playing catchup, whether to hedge against unlikely success, or just because that's the kind of thing that inept monoliths are prone to do. The pewdiepie thing is very interesting to me. He, like fortnight, is responsible for shaping the norms of the next generation. If fortnight decided to make bitcoin the only way to get currency into the game I'd be long bitcoin. Because whatever 12 year olds are doing today is whatever's going to be google-sized in 2040. So that's a neat thought. I'm not familiar with D-Live. Looked it up real fast. It looks like... a whole bunch of nothing, that I don't know why I should care about it, or why it's a thing... I have three reactions to that: 1) I just turned 30 and, right on time, don't know shit about what young people are into. D-live could be a big deal and I'm miscalibrated. 2) D-live is actually a fledgling thing, and they're paying pewdiepie loads of cash to do this. The platform, from a messaging perspective, basically IS pewdiepie. He may also be behind d-live in some meaningful way, or otherwise stand to get crazy rich(er) from this. 3) D-live is to speech what crypto is to finance: amidst privacy woes, hate speech, censorship, deplatforming, and runaway algos, there's a cultural demand for disruption and alternative ecosystems that allow people who feel marginalized by the current ecosystem to escape to a new eden. Crypto feels like it's gotten a handful of false starts and failure to launch in narrative-space with this idea. But it feels like the speech/platform version of this same narrative is just beginning to take hold, and with a lot more early steam. If crypto can interweave itself within that larger cultural shift, and manage to hang on? Maybe that could work.

whttheuuu 7y ago

bitcoin is just getting started..

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> if you commoditize something that nobody cares about I think cryptocurrencies are an obvious trash fire. I also think they contain all the elements (flow information asymmetry, bad price transparency and consistency, high technical volatility, and zero capacity for fundamental edge) that make it quite profitable to make markets in, i.e to be the house in respect of. Combine that with the general culture around cryptocurrencies, which I suspect is averse to litigation, and you have a supremely profitable business. One need not love what they trade. (I do see an ethical issue with selling retail customers such products.)

DennisP 7y ago

Seems to me that launching at the peak of a bubble is a lot sillier. Launching after a deep bear market when it's been back in an uptrend for four months is pretty reasonable, and more likely to be good for your customers.