4 ms·

At this point the whole thing feels like Iraq 2.0 and I wonder if I'm getting suckered by media. What only worries me as a progressively-disenchanted but firml

by fxfan 7y ago

At this point the whole thing feels like Iraq 2.0 and I wonder if I'm getting suckered by media. What only worries me as a progressively-disenchanted but firmly and forever a supporter of Bernie Sanders is that even sanders seems to have been wrong on this one unlike Iraq, which I would shout from rooftops that he was the only politician right about. I would (and still do) quote his 'What are you afraid of' video to all who would listen... The question is just why?

rdtsc 7y ago
I'd be interested in what Chomsky would have to say about it. Manufacturing Consent seems more relevant than ever.
- colordrops 7y ago
  He's said several things about it, and has trashed the Russiagate conspiracy. He emphasizes both that the US interferes constantly in other elections, and also points out that Israeli collusion and interference in the US is orders of magnitude worse than Russian influence: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/04/01/noam_chomsky_trump-russia_collusion_claims_a_joke.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/04/01/noam_chom...
  - rdtsc 7y ago
    Thank you, nice find. I am not surprised. I think today's leftists are doing themselves a disservice for not listening to older thinkers like him.
  - CriticalCathed 7y ago
    I think you're misinterpreting him. He doesn't say that it's not a bad thing, or that it's a hoax. He simply says that the US does the same thing abroad and it's hypocritical to not care about that part of it.
    - colordrops 7y ago
      No, I don't believe I'm misinterpreting him. He is clearly showing heavy disdain for the assertion that the Russians had any material effect on US elections. He is also pointing out that there is the much greater issue of Israeli collusion that everyone, including yourself, is ignoring when the Russia collusion narrative is a "joke" (his words). Everyone please watch the video for yourselves. It's short.
- spaceflunky 7y ago
  Chomsky already said "Russian collusion" was/is a complete joke
JeremyBanks 7y ago
What are you even trying to say
losteric 7y ago
Wrong? About what? And, honestly, why the hell are you "wondering" in this thread! The report is right there - go read read it! "Mainstream" media hit it pretty much spot on. Although, the social media conspiracies and regurgitation of actual reporting was way off... which astroturfers have been exploiting in PR attack on journalism...
zaroth 7y ago
For better or worse, you just can’t have this conversation on HN.
akhilcacharya 7y ago
It's not Iraq 2.0 if we saw repeated interference, all deeply researched and shown in the report!
duxup 7y ago
What was Sanders or anyone else wrong about?
ericd 7y ago
Matt Taibbi wrote an interesting article that agrees with you on the Iraq 2.0 front: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-mill... I haven't read this one, but it seems to be in the same vein: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russiagate-fiasco-taibbi-news-media-826246/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russ...
- asciibinary 7y ago
  The second article is full of errors and false interpretations: https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1121229047760027648 https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1121229047760027648 You should read the report
  - ericd 7y ago
    Maybe it's because I don't use Twitter, but I find that thread to be incredibly unreadable. Are there any particularly salient points you can point out? Is Taibbi wrong in his overall point that the media has grossly misrepresented the existence of a Russian conspiracy?

by fxfan 7y ago

rdtsc 7y ago

I'd be interested in what Chomsky would have to say about it. Manufacturing Consent seems more relevant than ever.

colordrops 7y ago
He's said several things about it, and has trashed the Russiagate conspiracy. He emphasizes both that the US interferes constantly in other elections, and also points out that Israeli collusion and interference in the US is orders of magnitude worse than Russian influence: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/04/01/noam_chomsky_trump-russia_collusion_claims_a_joke.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/04/01/noam_chom...
- rdtsc 7y ago
  Thank you, nice find. I am not surprised. I think today's leftists are doing themselves a disservice for not listening to older thinkers like him.
- CriticalCathed 7y ago
  I think you're misinterpreting him. He doesn't say that it's not a bad thing, or that it's a hoax. He simply says that the US does the same thing abroad and it's hypocritical to not care about that part of it.
  - colordrops 7y ago
    No, I don't believe I'm misinterpreting him. He is clearly showing heavy disdain for the assertion that the Russians had any material effect on US elections. He is also pointing out that there is the much greater issue of Israeli collusion that everyone, including yourself, is ignoring when the Russia collusion narrative is a "joke" (his words). Everyone please watch the video for yourselves. It's short.
spaceflunky 7y ago
Chomsky already said "Russian collusion" was/is a complete joke

JeremyBanks 7y ago

What are you even trying to say

losteric 7y ago

Wrong? About what? And, honestly, why the hell are you "wondering" in this thread! The report is right there - go read read it! "Mainstream" media hit it pretty much spot on. Although, the social media conspiracies and regurgitation of actual reporting was way off... which astroturfers have been exploiting in PR attack on journalism...

zaroth 7y ago

For better or worse, you just can’t have this conversation on HN.

akhilcacharya 7y ago

It's not Iraq 2.0 if we saw repeated interference, all deeply researched and shown in the report!

duxup 7y ago

What was Sanders or anyone else wrong about?

ericd 7y ago

Matt Taibbi wrote an interesting article that agrees with you on the Iraq 2.0 front: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-mill... I haven't read this one, but it seems to be in the same vein: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russiagate-fiasco-taibbi-news-media-826246/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russ...

asciibinary 7y ago
The second article is full of errors and false interpretations: https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1121229047760027648 https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1121229047760027648 You should read the report
- ericd 7y ago
  Maybe it's because I don't use Twitter, but I find that thread to be incredibly unreadable. Are there any particularly salient points you can point out? Is Taibbi wrong in his overall point that the media has grossly misrepresented the existence of a Russian conspiracy?