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It did happen in 1986, back when the FBI agents were woefully outgunned. The current trend of militarization is a reaction to that incident, and now the pendulu

It did happen in 1986, back when the FBI agents were woefully outgunned. The current trend of militarization is a reaction to that incident, and now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

dmix 8y ago
> between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers and murderers. What does a SWAT team responding to a heavily-armed bank robbery have to do with raiding the offices of a well-known biotech startup in San Francisco over billing irregularities?
- drak0n1c 8y ago
  The parent comment asked a rhetorical question implying that FBI officers never died due to being under-equipped. I provided a counter-example, and that event was what motivated a lot of heavier armament in the FBI. The problem is not that they have equipment, it's that they are incentivized to abuse the entire toolbox for every situation under the sun.
  - dmix 8y ago
    Just because you can find a very weakly related example doesn't make it a good counter-example. If you can find a single example where raiding a corporate office over financial reasons (or basically anything not involving weapons, violent crime, or a dangerous person) required anything beyond a holstered service weapon then I'll be convinced...
    - speedplane 8y ago
      > If you can find a single example where raiding a corporate office over financial reasons (or basically anything not involving weapons, violent crime, or a dangerous person) required anything beyond a holstered service weapon then I'll be convinced... What about raiding a business selling counterfeit goods, like knock-off watches or pharmaceuticals? What about prostitution or sex trafficker rings? It's plausible that given the shady nature of the business, someone may do something stupid.
    - kelnos 8y ago
      The parent wasn't justifying the behavior, but was pointing out that the escalation in militarization of law enforcement can count the 1986 Miami FBI shootout referenced as one of its causes.
shpx 8y ago
And also in 1997 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

dmix 8y ago

> between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers and murderers. What does a SWAT team responding to a heavily-armed bank robbery have to do with raiding the offices of a well-known biotech startup in San Francisco over billing irregularities?

drak0n1c 8y ago
The parent comment asked a rhetorical question implying that FBI officers never died due to being under-equipped. I provided a counter-example, and that event was what motivated a lot of heavier armament in the FBI. The problem is not that they have equipment, it's that they are incentivized to abuse the entire toolbox for every situation under the sun.
- dmix 8y ago
  Just because you can find a very weakly related example doesn't make it a good counter-example. If you can find a single example where raiding a corporate office over financial reasons (or basically anything not involving weapons, violent crime, or a dangerous person) required anything beyond a holstered service weapon then I'll be convinced...
  - speedplane 8y ago
    > If you can find a single example where raiding a corporate office over financial reasons (or basically anything not involving weapons, violent crime, or a dangerous person) required anything beyond a holstered service weapon then I'll be convinced... What about raiding a business selling counterfeit goods, like knock-off watches or pharmaceuticals? What about prostitution or sex trafficker rings? It's plausible that given the shady nature of the business, someone may do something stupid.
  - kelnos 8y ago
    The parent wasn't justifying the behavior, but was pointing out that the escalation in militarization of law enforcement can count the 1986 Miami FBI shootout referenced as one of its causes.

shpx 8y ago

And also in 1997 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout