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The FBI and most US law enforcement is notorious for ridiculous overkill and roughing up subjects of search warrants.
by kyrieeschaton 7y ago
The FBI and most US law enforcement is notorious for ridiculous overkill and roughing up subjects of search warrants.
- bdibs 7y agoBetter to have it and not need it.
- saagarjha 7y agoWorse to have it and escalate the situation to the point where it is needed…
- bdibs 7y agoPolice being killed due to a lack of equipment is the bigger issue in my opinion.
- penagwin 7y agoIs that better than Police + otherwise innocent people from being hurt/killed because the people freaked out with a miniature army charging at them yelling?
- bdibs 7y agoOf course not, but does that happen a lot? There is no perfect solution, so I think it's better to go with the one that most often protects lives. I don't have the numbers, but I'd assume wearing body armor and having proper equipment protects more lives than it causes harm (via "freaking out").
- jtmcmc 7y agoreally? because police killing people is my much bigger concern...
- mindslight 7y agoWhat is the injury rate for parking enforcement or process servers?
- stonogo 7y agoI would agree with you, if that ever happened in the United States.
- dmix 7y agoYou never know. Susan from accounting might be packing, waiting for the random day they get surprised raided by the feds...
- drak0n1c 7y agoIt did happen in 1986, back when the FBI agents were woefully outgunned. The current trend of militarization is a reaction to that incident, and now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout
- dmix 7y ago> between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers and murderers. What does a SWAT team responding to a heavily-armed bank robbery have to do with raiding the offices of a well-known biotech startup in San Francisco over billing irregularities?
- drak0n1c 7y agoThe parent comment asked a rhetorical question implying that FBI officers never died due to being under-equipped. I provided a counter-example, and that event was what motivated a lot of heavier armament in the FBI. The problem is not that they have equipment, it's that they are incentivized to abuse the entire toolbox for every situation under the sun.
- dmix 7y agoJust because you can find a very weakly related example doesn't make it a good counter-example. If you can find a single example where raiding a corporate office over financial reasons (or basically anything not involving weapons, violent crime, or a dangerous person) required anything beyond a holstered service weapon then I'll be convinced...
- IfOnlyYouKnew 7y agoBy that vacuous logic, you should be armed to the teeth any time you get back home. Because there’s no absolute certainty that your spouse has not been abducted by aliens and replaced with an almost-exact replica that will kill you the second you turn your back.
- bdibs 7y agoThe odds of someone harming the police and my spouse becoming an alien are the same?
- IfOnlyYouKnew 7y agoIt’s called reductio ad absurdum. Your argument is, basically, that one should not disregard the possibility of some foosball-steeled accountants pulling a gun, no matter how low it is. I extended this argument to an even less likely scenario to show its absurdity. You’re now back to arguing over specific probabilities, proving my point. Also, you knew all this, and are arguing in bad faith.
- drak0n1c 7y agoThe FBI engaged in similar militarized theater for the recent arrest of Roger Stone. Dozens of armored SWAT officers, automatic rifles, and a CNN war correspondent van parked outside - all to arrest a solitary man sleeping his pajamas. For historical context, this trend is due to the pendulum swinging back too far in reaction to the Miami FBI shootout [1], where officers were woefully outgunned. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout
- VectorLock 7y agoRoger Stone had posted multiple videos of him at a shooting range so its reasonable for them to assume he was in the possession of firearms.
- byset 7y agoso anyone who has been at a shooting range needs to be raided by a SWAT team when arrested for white-collar crimes?
- dragonwriter 7y agoThe thing about a heavily armed society is that it necessitates law enforcement preparing for armed resistance in routine tasks as a default rather than exceptional case, if nothing else to reduce the probability of such resistance by reducing the expectation of it being successful. You can't reasonably both have a pervasively armed populace and law enforcement unprepared to deal with armed resistance from suspects even when the crime of which they are suspected is not itself violent.
- Joakal 7y agoThis is a different one: > As a “Lawman” crew filmed the raid Monday, deputies serving a search warrant blew out the suspect’s windows and leveled his gate, frightening neighbors. Jesus Llovera, who was convicted last year of attending a cockfight but has no record of owning weapons, was arrested on charges of suspected cockfighting, Phoenix TV station KPHO reported. He was unarmed. > Steven Seagal, Arizona Sheriff Use Tank to Bust Up Cockfighting for A&E Show (Update) https://www.thewrap.com/steven-seagal-arizona-sheriff-use-tank-bust-cockfighting-ae-show-update-25794/ https://www.thewrap.com/steven-seagal-arizona-sheriff-use-ta...