7 ms·

The question (with Uber in particular) is that if this business model really covers up a huge ponzi scheme. Before the last decade (or even 5 years?) the amoun

The question (with Uber in particular) is that if this business model really covers up a huge ponzi scheme. Before the last decade (or even 5 years?) the amount of money some of these companies have been raising would have been unheard of and required an IPO. But if you can keep finding ever bigger investors to give you ever more money... It's a really weird reality, because typically the worst kind of place to start a company is one with huge barriers to entry that requires a ton of money to get started. Yet that seems to have done quite well recently. Squashing minimum wage service providers seems to be merely a side effect... these companies can't really make money EVEN WHEN they ignore regulations and exploit their not-technically-employees.

Traster 7y ago
I think that's a really interesting concept. People think Uber will reach a scale where either it can use automation to reduce costs or jack up prices. It may well be the other way around - as it matures regulations catch up and the loopholes it was using to keep costs down disappear and their costs slowly increase instead.
- jameslevy 7y ago
  Places like NYC already show this in practice.
  - an_account_name 7y ago
    Can you elaborate? I don't have any context on this other than taking a Lyft in NYC once.
    - ancientworldnow 7y ago
      NYC introduced fees for ride sharing with destinations or pickups in Manhattan to reduce congestion. They also added fees to guarantee a reasonable minimum wage for the drivers of the ride sharing app. The difference in price between a cab and a uber/lyft is relatively small. Convenience seems to be the primary driver for which people use (cabs in Manhattan frequently because of ubiquity, apps in other boroughs).
      - greenyoda 7y ago
        NYC also imposed a cap on the number of ride sharing vehicles that could be operated. Uber is suing to try to overturn it: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/uber-suing-new-york-city-over-cap-on-ride-sharing-drivers-021819.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/uber-suing-new-york-cit...
- losteric 7y ago
  Or that terrible customer experiences which are currently "exceptions to the rule" end up becoming the norm at whatever they pay drivers/charge customers... there are only so many good drivers and customers/contractors burned by bad experiences will not come back to Uber's platform.
  - napier 7y ago
    See how well Gojek and Grab are eating Uber's lunch across Asia. Better experience and lower costs.
    - moltar 7y ago
      Wouldn’t say Grab is a good experience. I find drivers less trained, cars more beat up (less QC). Also drivers can be weird. On two occasions they were trying to sneakily take pics of my wife when she was alone. My wife’s Caucasian. This is in Thailand by the way. The only thing is good (for me) about grab is price. It’s unsustainably cheap, like Uber.
  - sephicr 7y ago
    Where I live (in Norway) we are quite well accustomed to bad experiences with overpriceed taxis and bad customer services with existing taxi companies (in large operated with immigrant drivers). Uber would give so much more transparency and security for customers that I'm baffled that it has not been allowed yet
cortesoft 7y ago
> It's a really weird reality, because typically the worst kind of place to start a company is one with huge barriers to entry that requires a ton of money to get started. Yet that seems to have done quite well recently. That is the case if a normal person is starting a business. However, for venture capitalists, it is different. The asset they have is a ton of money, so they are looking for businesses where that provides them an advantage. They WANT to fund a business that requires a ton of money and has lots of barriers to entry, because that is their strength.
jv22222 7y ago
> with huge barriers to entry that requires a ton of money to get started Just a note that the proof of concept stage was very cheaply done. Travis hired someone to make an app and the "dispatch" system was just a single php page. He then tested it out with his friends. That said, I agree that ultimately to get to the position they are today required a ton of cash - just the getting started was pretty cheap. Actually we have the blow-by-blow of how it all played out on our podcast since Jason was employee #7 and built out the original node dispatch system. http://techzinglive.com http://techzinglive.com I'm not sure exactly what show he started working on it, might need to go back to 95. Full show list here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/frnqzndys9j3vc1/P7jHgH0BQK https://www.dropbox.com/sh/frnqzndys9j3vc1/P7jHgH0BQK
- hammock 7y ago
  Hustle recognize hustle but which podcast episode is it dude? There are 300+ eps at that link.
  - jv22222 7y ago
    Well it's A LOT of them. Because we spoke about the Uber stuff as Jason lived it in real time ;) A fun one was when Jason turned down the CTO position and of course we had no idea at the time what that really meant. I guess in the latest episode 321 (Quick & Dirty) Jason does give an overview of the Uber story and how he got involved if you want a TL;DR version.
- misiti3780 7y ago
  I just spent 10 minutes looking for it and couldnt find it.
  - jv22222 7y ago
    Well as I said above it's not one episode it's a lot of them. But actually I just searched and this is the first time that Uber was mentioned in the show notes: http://techzinglive.com/page/581/95-tz-discussion-lost-in-la http://techzinglive.com/page/581/95-tz-discussion-lost-in-la So looks like 95+

Traster 7y ago

I think that's a really interesting concept. People think Uber will reach a scale where either it can use automation to reduce costs or jack up prices. It may well be the other way around - as it matures regulations catch up and the loopholes it was using to keep costs down disappear and their costs slowly increase instead.

jameslevy 7y ago
Places like NYC already show this in practice.
- an_account_name 7y ago
  Can you elaborate? I don't have any context on this other than taking a Lyft in NYC once.
  - ancientworldnow 7y ago
    NYC introduced fees for ride sharing with destinations or pickups in Manhattan to reduce congestion. They also added fees to guarantee a reasonable minimum wage for the drivers of the ride sharing app. The difference in price between a cab and a uber/lyft is relatively small. Convenience seems to be the primary driver for which people use (cabs in Manhattan frequently because of ubiquity, apps in other boroughs).
    - greenyoda 7y ago
      NYC also imposed a cap on the number of ride sharing vehicles that could be operated. Uber is suing to try to overturn it: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/uber-suing-new-york-city-over-cap-on-ride-sharing-drivers-021819.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/uber-suing-new-york-cit...
losteric 7y ago
Or that terrible customer experiences which are currently "exceptions to the rule" end up becoming the norm at whatever they pay drivers/charge customers... there are only so many good drivers and customers/contractors burned by bad experiences will not come back to Uber's platform.
- napier 7y ago
  See how well Gojek and Grab are eating Uber's lunch across Asia. Better experience and lower costs.
  - moltar 7y ago
    Wouldn’t say Grab is a good experience. I find drivers less trained, cars more beat up (less QC). Also drivers can be weird. On two occasions they were trying to sneakily take pics of my wife when she was alone. My wife’s Caucasian. This is in Thailand by the way. The only thing is good (for me) about grab is price. It’s unsustainably cheap, like Uber.
- sephicr 7y ago
  Where I live (in Norway) we are quite well accustomed to bad experiences with overpriceed taxis and bad customer services with existing taxi companies (in large operated with immigrant drivers). Uber would give so much more transparency and security for customers that I'm baffled that it has not been allowed yet

cortesoft 7y ago

> It's a really weird reality, because typically the worst kind of place to start a company is one with huge barriers to entry that requires a ton of money to get started. Yet that seems to have done quite well recently. That is the case if a normal person is starting a business. However, for venture capitalists, it is different. The asset they have is a ton of money, so they are looking for businesses where that provides them an advantage. They WANT to fund a business that requires a ton of money and has lots of barriers to entry, because that is their strength.

jv22222 7y ago

> with huge barriers to entry that requires a ton of money to get started Just a note that the proof of concept stage was very cheaply done. Travis hired someone to make an app and the "dispatch" system was just a single php page. He then tested it out with his friends. That said, I agree that ultimately to get to the position they are today required a ton of cash - just the getting started was pretty cheap. Actually we have the blow-by-blow of how it all played out on our podcast since Jason was employee #7 and built out the original node dispatch system. http://techzinglive.com http://techzinglive.com I'm not sure exactly what show he started working on it, might need to go back to 95. Full show list here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/frnqzndys9j3vc1/P7jHgH0BQK https://www.dropbox.com/sh/frnqzndys9j3vc1/P7jHgH0BQK

hammock 7y ago
Hustle recognize hustle but which podcast episode is it dude? There are 300+ eps at that link.
- jv22222 7y ago
  Well it's A LOT of them. Because we spoke about the Uber stuff as Jason lived it in real time ;) A fun one was when Jason turned down the CTO position and of course we had no idea at the time what that really meant. I guess in the latest episode 321 (Quick & Dirty) Jason does give an overview of the Uber story and how he got involved if you want a TL;DR version.
misiti3780 7y ago
I just spent 10 minutes looking for it and couldnt find it.
- jv22222 7y ago
  Well as I said above it's not one episode it's a lot of them. But actually I just searched and this is the first time that Uber was mentioned in the show notes: http://techzinglive.com/page/581/95-tz-discussion-lost-in-la http://techzinglive.com/page/581/95-tz-discussion-lost-in-la So looks like 95+