8 ms·

UBiome Offices Searched by FBI

83 points by jbergstroem 7y ago

natosaichek 7y ago
Video of employees walking out of the building: https://twitter.com/sallyshin/status/1121854424727425024 https://twitter.com/sallyshin/status/1121854424727425024
- refurb 7y ago
  Anyone else notice the "DCIS Police" on the cops shirt? DCIS protects military personnel by investigating cases of fraud, bribery, and corruption; preventing the illegal transfer of sensitive defense technologies to proscribed nations and criminal elements; investigating companies that use defective, substandard, or counterfeit parts in weapons systems and equipment utilized by the military; and stopping cyber crimes and computer intrusions. Priorities: Health care fraud committed by providers that involves (a) quality of care, unnecessary care, or failure to provide care to Tricare‐eligible service members, retirees, dependents, or survivors; or (b) significant direct loss to DoD's Tricare Management Activity.[1] Maybe they just needed help with the raid and DCIS was available? Or maybe uBiome was ripping of gov't insurers? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Criminal_Investigative_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Criminal_Investigative...
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    DCIS explicitly, from the same source, is responsible for investigating, among other things: ”Health care fraud committed by providers that involves (a) quality of care, unnecessary care, or failure to provide care to Tricare‐eligible service members, retirees, dependents, or survivors; or (b) significant direct loss to DoD's Tricare Management Activity.” Given the general concerns about UBiome, that responsibility has to be why DCIS is involved.
  - leelew 7y ago
    DCIS works for OIG, who the FBI will investigate claims submitted to them.
lsllc 7y ago
Are they seriously carrying shields and body armor?
- kyrieeschaton 7y ago
  The FBI and most US law enforcement is notorious for ridiculous overkill and roughing up subjects of search warrants.
  - bdibs 7y ago
    Better to have it and not need it.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Worse to have it and escalate the situation to the point where it is needed…
      - bdibs 7y ago
        Police being killed due to a lack of equipment is the bigger issue in my opinion.
        penagwin 7y ago
        Is that better than Police + otherwise innocent people from being hurt/killed because the people freaked out with a miniature army charging at them yelling?
        bdibs 7y ago
        Of course not, but does that happen a lot? There is no perfect solution, so I think it's better to go with the one that most often protects lives. I don't have the numbers, but I'd assume wearing body armor and having proper equipment protects more lives than it causes harm (via "freaking out").
        7y ago
3327 7y ago
Thank god for the FBI, honestly the amount of grey area and practices is out of control. I hope a few more valley startups are raided. Classpass being one, for not letting me cancel and then still billing while they said they were not. Go FBI!!! We need you.
imjk 7y ago
There's not much in the way of details in this article. Some other news sources are suggesting the company is being investigated for how they're billing insurance companies specifically: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/the-fbi-just-raided-ubiomes-office-for-billing-practices.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/the-fbi-just-raided-ubiomes-...
schmatz 7y ago
I was stupid enough to sign up for their SmartGut program. They never clearly disclose how much the test costs if you opt to use your insurance. They’re $2700. Not only that, they make it seem like you purchased 6 tests, but the $2700 charge is per test. Their billing practices are questionable, at least from the perspective of the consumer. On the BBB page for uBiome tons of people are complaining. While I can afford the surprise charge, I feel bad for the many that surely cannot.
- homero 7y ago
  They promised to only take what your insurance paid and not bill you any remainder. My insurance refused one and paid another. They ate the first one. But it's a ridiculous amount to bill my insurance so i didn't do anymore. They got shady when they started sending emails where just by clicking they would "resequence" your sample.
  - tschwimmer 7y ago
    >They promised to only take what your insurance paid and not bill you any remainder. This sounds like insurance fraud. [0] [0] https://www.ajmc.com/contributor/andria-jacobs-rn-ms-cen-cphq/2015/07/waiving-copays-and-deductibles-waves-a-red-flag https://www.ajmc.com/contributor/andria-jacobs-rn-ms-cen-cph...
    - homero 7y ago
      What about all the $5 drug copay promotions? A drug company just refunded my copay.
      - refurb 7y ago
        It’s ok with private insurance, but not public insurance. The federal govt considers it an inducement.
        leelew 7y ago
breck 7y ago
I did uBiome a couple of years ago, paying out of pocket ~$100-$200 or so for a kit. It was ahead of its time and I think it could have a very bright future. At the time the it was overhyping the present-day usefulness of the data but wasn't lying about it, similar to 23andMe. I'm hoping this is a 23andMe-like incident and not a Theranos, where the latter I guess blatantly lied about the accuracy of its tests. IMO (I occasionally work with microbiome data in our bioinformatics lab), your microbiome data today is nearly useless but will be indispensable in the future as the technology improves, and we need early adopters to use services like uBiome to get there. I know nothing about uBiome's newer more expensive products and/or how they bill insurance companies. I hope they're not doing anything illegal there, or if there is a simple settlement that can be reached a la 23andMe's FDA case. I can't imagine they are doing anything more unethical than anyone else in the health insurance industry, which IMO is rotten to the core (I just saw my friend's insurance bill for a normal healthy birth + 2day stay at a hospital in SF for over $60,000 before insurance).
- refurb 7y ago
  Reimbursement is everything in the healthcare industry and the gov't loves to lay the smack down on companies who play fast and loose with the billing rules, particularly if Medicare or Medicaid is involved. Yes, your friend's hospital bill is ridiculous, but that's doesn't mean it was fraudulent. If uBiome is breaking the rules, they are going to be severely punished.
ilamont 7y ago
So who are the board members who signed off on its current business plan? Don't see anything on the site about the corporate board, just the SAB. The Crunchbase list (https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ubiome/advisors/current_advisors_image_list#section-board-members-and-advisors https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ubiome/advisors/curr...) seems outdated in light of the funding it has received from Andreessen, OS Fund, and 8 VC.
reureu 7y ago
I wonder if all the microbiome sequence data that UBiome collected will wind up in some FBI database now.
- atomical 7y ago
  uBiome was mostly selling pseudoscience to engineers (who should know better) and the essential oils crowd. Once you have the data you have to do something meaningful with it. For most uBiome users that means heading to YouTube to figure out which guru they are going to follow.
2coolbaby 7y ago
My gut bacteria was destroyed by antibiotics plus after my latest round I ended up with the c-dif toxin that can be fatal. My microbiome results were so important in getting my gut bacteria recovered and taking the right probiotics to do it. So, anyone saying the results are useless obviously never saw a set of them. I’m disappointed that this has happened because I was just starting to get my gut bacteria in line through good diet and probiotics. No snake or essential oils necessary! (Puts crystals away and looks at that poster with sarcasm!).

83 points by jbergstroem 7y ago

Video of employees walking out of the building: https://twitter.com/sallyshin/status/1121854424727425024 https://twitter.com/sallyshin/status/1121854424727425024

refurb 7y ago
Anyone else notice the "DCIS Police" on the cops shirt? DCIS protects military personnel by investigating cases of fraud, bribery, and corruption; preventing the illegal transfer of sensitive defense technologies to proscribed nations and criminal elements; investigating companies that use defective, substandard, or counterfeit parts in weapons systems and equipment utilized by the military; and stopping cyber crimes and computer intrusions. Priorities: Health care fraud committed by providers that involves (a) quality of care, unnecessary care, or failure to provide care to Tricare‐eligible service members, retirees, dependents, or survivors; or (b) significant direct loss to DoD's Tricare Management Activity.[1] Maybe they just needed help with the raid and DCIS was available? Or maybe uBiome was ripping of gov't insurers? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Criminal_Investigative_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Criminal_Investigative...
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  DCIS explicitly, from the same source, is responsible for investigating, among other things: ”Health care fraud committed by providers that involves (a) quality of care, unnecessary care, or failure to provide care to Tricare‐eligible service members, retirees, dependents, or survivors; or (b) significant direct loss to DoD's Tricare Management Activity.” Given the general concerns about UBiome, that responsibility has to be why DCIS is involved.
- leelew 7y ago
  DCIS works for OIG, who the FBI will investigate claims submitted to them.

lsllc 7y ago

Are they seriously carrying shields and body armor?

kyrieeschaton 7y ago
The FBI and most US law enforcement is notorious for ridiculous overkill and roughing up subjects of search warrants.
- bdibs 7y ago
  Better to have it and not need it.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Worse to have it and escalate the situation to the point where it is needed…
    - bdibs 7y ago
      Police being killed due to a lack of equipment is the bigger issue in my opinion.
      - penagwin 7y ago
        Is that better than Police + otherwise innocent people from being hurt/killed because the people freaked out with a miniature army charging at them yelling?
        bdibs 7y ago
        Of course not, but does that happen a lot? There is no perfect solution, so I think it's better to go with the one that most often protects lives. I don't have the numbers, but I'd assume wearing body armor and having proper equipment protects more lives than it causes harm (via "freaking out").
      - 7y ago

3327 7y ago

Thank god for the FBI, honestly the amount of grey area and practices is out of control. I hope a few more valley startups are raided. Classpass being one, for not letting me cancel and then still billing while they said they were not. Go FBI!!! We need you.

imjk 7y ago

There's not much in the way of details in this article. Some other news sources are suggesting the company is being investigated for how they're billing insurance companies specifically: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/the-fbi-just-raided-ubiomes-office-for-billing-practices.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/the-fbi-just-raided-ubiomes-...

schmatz 7y ago

I was stupid enough to sign up for their SmartGut program. They never clearly disclose how much the test costs if you opt to use your insurance. They’re $2700. Not only that, they make it seem like you purchased 6 tests, but the $2700 charge is per test. Their billing practices are questionable, at least from the perspective of the consumer. On the BBB page for uBiome tons of people are complaining. While I can afford the surprise charge, I feel bad for the many that surely cannot.

homero 7y ago
They promised to only take what your insurance paid and not bill you any remainder. My insurance refused one and paid another. They ate the first one. But it's a ridiculous amount to bill my insurance so i didn't do anymore. They got shady when they started sending emails where just by clicking they would "resequence" your sample.
- tschwimmer 7y ago
  >They promised to only take what your insurance paid and not bill you any remainder. This sounds like insurance fraud. [0] [0] https://www.ajmc.com/contributor/andria-jacobs-rn-ms-cen-cphq/2015/07/waiving-copays-and-deductibles-waves-a-red-flag https://www.ajmc.com/contributor/andria-jacobs-rn-ms-cen-cph...
  - homero 7y ago
    What about all the $5 drug copay promotions? A drug company just refunded my copay.
    - refurb 7y ago
      It’s ok with private insurance, but not public insurance. The federal govt considers it an inducement.
      - leelew 7y ago

breck 7y ago

I did uBiome a couple of years ago, paying out of pocket ~$100-$200 or so for a kit. It was ahead of its time and I think it could have a very bright future. At the time the it was overhyping the present-day usefulness of the data but wasn't lying about it, similar to 23andMe. I'm hoping this is a 23andMe-like incident and not a Theranos, where the latter I guess blatantly lied about the accuracy of its tests. IMO (I occasionally work with microbiome data in our bioinformatics lab), your microbiome data today is nearly useless but will be indispensable in the future as the technology improves, and we need early adopters to use services like uBiome to get there. I know nothing about uBiome's newer more expensive products and/or how they bill insurance companies. I hope they're not doing anything illegal there, or if there is a simple settlement that can be reached a la 23andMe's FDA case. I can't imagine they are doing anything more unethical than anyone else in the health insurance industry, which IMO is rotten to the core (I just saw my friend's insurance bill for a normal healthy birth + 2day stay at a hospital in SF for over $60,000 before insurance).

refurb 7y ago
Reimbursement is everything in the healthcare industry and the gov't loves to lay the smack down on companies who play fast and loose with the billing rules, particularly if Medicare or Medicaid is involved. Yes, your friend's hospital bill is ridiculous, but that's doesn't mean it was fraudulent. If uBiome is breaking the rules, they are going to be severely punished.

ilamont 7y ago

So who are the board members who signed off on its current business plan? Don't see anything on the site about the corporate board, just the SAB. The Crunchbase list (https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ubiome/advisors/current_advisors_image_list#section-board-members-and-advisors https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ubiome/advisors/curr...) seems outdated in light of the funding it has received from Andreessen, OS Fund, and 8 VC.

reureu 7y ago

I wonder if all the microbiome sequence data that UBiome collected will wind up in some FBI database now.

atomical 7y ago
uBiome was mostly selling pseudoscience to engineers (who should know better) and the essential oils crowd. Once you have the data you have to do something meaningful with it. For most uBiome users that means heading to YouTube to figure out which guru they are going to follow.

2coolbaby 7y ago

My gut bacteria was destroyed by antibiotics plus after my latest round I ended up with the c-dif toxin that can be fatal. My microbiome results were so important in getting my gut bacteria recovered and taking the right probiotics to do it. So, anyone saying the results are useless obviously never saw a set of them. I’m disappointed that this has happened because I was just starting to get my gut bacteria in line through good diet and probiotics. No snake or essential oils necessary! (Puts crystals away and looks at that poster with sarcasm!).