4 ms·

This comment turned out an interesting experiment in internet crowd dynamics. I have over 40 upvotes at this point, but all the replies to my post have been mor

This comment turned out an interesting experiment in internet crowd dynamics. I have over 40 upvotes at this point, but all the replies to my post have been more-or-less negative. My guess is that the people who are happy with Microsoft or generally agree can't be bothered to reply, while the few who've been burnt would take this as an opportunity to take out their anger (very justifiably so). Most of us know internet opinions behave in this manner where you mostly get to hear discontent, but it's still fascinating to experience it first hand. (I'm not in any way criticizing the replies to my post, which have been diligently written with real life examples and definitely given me some things to think about)

throwaway_9168 8y ago
Well, its certainly much easier to upvote than to write a comment - you don't have to actually justify your upvote nor will the words be scrutinized. If you feel happy with MSFT products, you can just upvote, but if you don't like them you can't just say "Well, I don't agree!". And the lack of downvotes can be explained by another phenomenon - there is no incentive for some to downvote a comment like yours at this point, because nearly all replies are negative! If a comment thread surfaces some bad things about someone you don't like, and it becomes popular, you actually want it to become more popular isn't it?
- JohnFen 8y ago
  > And the lack of downvotes can be explained by another phenomenon There may be another factor as well. I don't downvote comments based on whether or not I agree with them (if I disagree enough to want to express that, I just make my own comment saying so). I downvote comments if I feel that they were egregious in some way (overly combative, insulting, nonsensical, etc.) I may be the only one who votes like this, though.
banashark 8y ago
I think that your comment turned into a "topic" of "opinions on azure". Perhaps it's that topic, rather than the content of your single starting comment, that is being upvoted. I thought that the subcomments listing out experiences was valuable to me. I would be conflicted on downvoting your comment though, because it would hide the subcomments that I do feel are valuable to have visible. To clarify, I don't think you wrote anything off topic or bad for discussion (which is why I would downvote something). Even though we have different perspectives, I feel both are valuable to have a comprehensive view.
justaguyhere 8y ago
One of my colleagues in a previous job had this super boring but very critical task - making sure the financial numbers entered in the system are correct. One mistake could cause serious problems for the company. My boss (CTO) once remarked - "we never hear from or about Patrice, she must be doing a fantastic job!" Point being, when things work, it is rare that people talk about it (like my boss), they just take it for granted. When things don't work though, that is a different story. I suppose it is just human nature.
theguidelines 8y ago
"Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pixelbath 8y ago
  Thank you for registering to post about the rules we're all familiar with. I don't actually believe, in this instance, the comments about the voting/comments make for boring reading. The moderation seems to working as intended here.
bartread 8y ago
I've had similar experiences on HN, and funnily enough the last time was for a comment that was fairly supportive of Microsoft. I got absolutely roasted in the comments, but received a ton of upvotes from the silent majority. There are three areas I'd disagree with you though. The first is Microsoft's Surface line of tablets and laptops. I literally cannot find a kind word to say about the (very expensive) Surface Book devices we bought en masse about 18 months ago. They are awful[1] and we are already starting to phase them out as a result. It makes no sense because Microsoft can clearly do hardware well: for example, I have no complaints about my Xbox One X - it's all round great. The second may substantially be connected to the first, and that's Windows 10. I increasingly hate using it because I find it slow, finicky, and unresponsive/a serious resource hog. So much of the time my laptop is running hot and draining its battery because Windows is doing something or other not related to what I'm working on. The third is Microsoft Teams. The functionality it offers is good and, for VOIP and video calls, it's probably second only to Zoom so does get a thumbs up from me there. However, it's painfully slow to switch views, doesn't support multiple windows (so you can't sensibly look at chat and wiki at the same time), takes an age to start up, and behaves like an absolute moron when it comes to switching networks or losing and regaining network connectivity (usually requires a restart of the app). [1] Underpowered, overpriced, poor battery life, run very hot, ropey WiFi, poor speakers that are insufficiently loud, crappy trackpad, only a single display port built in, poorly designed/laid out ports, unreliable (and often weirdly slow) charging, drains battery within 12 - 18 hours whilst asleep, I could go on (and on). In short: DO NOT BUY UNLESS YOU HATE YOURSELF!
- flyinglizard 8y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree that the Surface (4 Pro for me) is an absolute garbage, but not for the lack of trying. It’s a good product in concept but requires a level of polish and software/hardware integration that - IMHO - only Apple has.
- kyriakos 8y ago
  Microsoft teams is featured packed. But some ui decisions and bugs won't let it be great. And the problems are not only on the desktop version. On android I receive a notification only to open the app and the message hasn't loaded yet, and doesn't load for at least 20 more seconds.
tracker1 8y ago
I have mixed feelings... I think Azure in general, and o365 specifically are pretty nice. I do think Azure is a bit overpriced, but they do offer a lot of discounts in a lot of ways, which offsets it for some. They've been a bit better than most at adapting to changes in tech, and if you put Windows aside for a moment, are overall moving in a very nice direction. Windows' changes have been pretty bad in terms of invasiveness since Windows 8/10. I just really don't like several bits of it. I think LSW is pretty nice, but iirc SystemD support is probably over a year off still, and docker/podman still a ways off. Windows vs Linux containers and Docker has seriously muddied the waters so to speak. MS, like most corporations isn't a single entity... there's various child entities with some areas of cooperation between them. I'm glad that Windows no longer steers the ship and appreciate a lot of the efforts I've seen. Open tooling and platforms in particular. I love VS Code, the Azure Data Studio (or whatever it's called) is nice and progressing for cross-platform. I do think its' weird that Teams is the odd man out as an electron app from MS without a proper Linux release. Moving Edge to blink/chromium is a good move overall. I'm anywhere from luke warm to positive on MS in general. That said, it isn't generally my first choice for a lot of things (outside o365). I'm often frustrated with working in Windows at work after about 6 years working outside windows. I use bash (from git) with windows, and there's quirks, but less than with LSW. I really want them to succeed as I think with the current leadership and direction a better MS means better options and tools for all. I wish they'd redouble their efforts on linux support for everything around Office and Teams though. I'd also like to be able to build/deploy a damned SQL project without windows too. In 2 years, by my own estimation, it will be a very different world running Windows as a developer and at that point it may become my favorite environment for building Linux apps of all things. MS/Windows progresses while Mac stagnates and alienates its creative/development/pro users more and more.
0-_-0 8y ago
People with less than 500 karma can't downvote though, so it's possible to end up with 40 upvotes even if the majority of people dislike Microsoft. Let's say 200 people wanted to vote on your post. 100 people with > 500 karma vote 45% up 55% down ending up with -10 karma total. 100 people with < 500 karma vote 45% up but the other 55% can't downvote = 35 total upvotes.
JohnFen 8y ago
I consider Microsoft more trustworthy than the other big tech companies because they behave in a more trustworthy fashion by (generally) being forthright about what they do and what their intentions are. That said, I avoid Microsoft products because I don't like what they do and what their intentions are. The difference between my attitude toward Microsoft and (for example) Facebook is that I make my decisions about Microsoft based on their products and services. I make my decisions about Facebook, etc., based on the fact that I don't trust them even a little. This means that Microsoft has the advantage -- if they cared whether or not I am on board with them (and they have no reason to), they could change my mind very quickly by altering their products. Facebook, etc., could not affect my attitude in the same way, as my main problem with them is that they are entirely untrustworthy.

throwaway_9168 8y ago

Well, its certainly much easier to upvote than to write a comment - you don't have to actually justify your upvote nor will the words be scrutinized. If you feel happy with MSFT products, you can just upvote, but if you don't like them you can't just say "Well, I don't agree!". And the lack of downvotes can be explained by another phenomenon - there is no incentive for some to downvote a comment like yours at this point, because nearly all replies are negative! If a comment thread surfaces some bad things about someone you don't like, and it becomes popular, you actually want it to become more popular isn't it?

JohnFen 8y ago
> And the lack of downvotes can be explained by another phenomenon There may be another factor as well. I don't downvote comments based on whether or not I agree with them (if I disagree enough to want to express that, I just make my own comment saying so). I downvote comments if I feel that they were egregious in some way (overly combative, insulting, nonsensical, etc.) I may be the only one who votes like this, though.

banashark 8y ago

I think that your comment turned into a "topic" of "opinions on azure". Perhaps it's that topic, rather than the content of your single starting comment, that is being upvoted. I thought that the subcomments listing out experiences was valuable to me. I would be conflicted on downvoting your comment though, because it would hide the subcomments that I do feel are valuable to have visible. To clarify, I don't think you wrote anything off topic or bad for discussion (which is why I would downvote something). Even though we have different perspectives, I feel both are valuable to have a comprehensive view.

justaguyhere 8y ago

One of my colleagues in a previous job had this super boring but very critical task - making sure the financial numbers entered in the system are correct. One mistake could cause serious problems for the company. My boss (CTO) once remarked - "we never hear from or about Patrice, she must be doing a fantastic job!" Point being, when things work, it is rare that people talk about it (like my boss), they just take it for granted. When things don't work though, that is a different story. I suppose it is just human nature.

theguidelines 8y ago

"Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pixelbath 8y ago
Thank you for registering to post about the rules we're all familiar with. I don't actually believe, in this instance, the comments about the voting/comments make for boring reading. The moderation seems to working as intended here.

bartread 8y ago

I've had similar experiences on HN, and funnily enough the last time was for a comment that was fairly supportive of Microsoft. I got absolutely roasted in the comments, but received a ton of upvotes from the silent majority. There are three areas I'd disagree with you though. The first is Microsoft's Surface line of tablets and laptops. I literally cannot find a kind word to say about the (very expensive) Surface Book devices we bought en masse about 18 months ago. They are awful[1] and we are already starting to phase them out as a result. It makes no sense because Microsoft can clearly do hardware well: for example, I have no complaints about my Xbox One X - it's all round great. The second may substantially be connected to the first, and that's Windows 10. I increasingly hate using it because I find it slow, finicky, and unresponsive/a serious resource hog. So much of the time my laptop is running hot and draining its battery because Windows is doing something or other not related to what I'm working on. The third is Microsoft Teams. The functionality it offers is good and, for VOIP and video calls, it's probably second only to Zoom so does get a thumbs up from me there. However, it's painfully slow to switch views, doesn't support multiple windows (so you can't sensibly look at chat and wiki at the same time), takes an age to start up, and behaves like an absolute moron when it comes to switching networks or losing and regaining network connectivity (usually requires a restart of the app). [1] Underpowered, overpriced, poor battery life, run very hot, ropey WiFi, poor speakers that are insufficiently loud, crappy trackpad, only a single display port built in, poorly designed/laid out ports, unreliable (and often weirdly slow) charging, drains battery within 12 - 18 hours whilst asleep, I could go on (and on). In short: DO NOT BUY UNLESS YOU HATE YOURSELF!

flyinglizard 8y ago
I wholeheartedly agree that the Surface (4 Pro for me) is an absolute garbage, but not for the lack of trying. It’s a good product in concept but requires a level of polish and software/hardware integration that - IMHO - only Apple has.
kyriakos 8y ago
Microsoft teams is featured packed. But some ui decisions and bugs won't let it be great. And the problems are not only on the desktop version. On android I receive a notification only to open the app and the message hasn't loaded yet, and doesn't load for at least 20 more seconds.

tracker1 8y ago

I have mixed feelings... I think Azure in general, and o365 specifically are pretty nice. I do think Azure is a bit overpriced, but they do offer a lot of discounts in a lot of ways, which offsets it for some. They've been a bit better than most at adapting to changes in tech, and if you put Windows aside for a moment, are overall moving in a very nice direction. Windows' changes have been pretty bad in terms of invasiveness since Windows 8/10. I just really don't like several bits of it. I think LSW is pretty nice, but iirc SystemD support is probably over a year off still, and docker/podman still a ways off. Windows vs Linux containers and Docker has seriously muddied the waters so to speak. MS, like most corporations isn't a single entity... there's various child entities with some areas of cooperation between them. I'm glad that Windows no longer steers the ship and appreciate a lot of the efforts I've seen. Open tooling and platforms in particular. I love VS Code, the Azure Data Studio (or whatever it's called) is nice and progressing for cross-platform. I do think its' weird that Teams is the odd man out as an electron app from MS without a proper Linux release. Moving Edge to blink/chromium is a good move overall. I'm anywhere from luke warm to positive on MS in general. That said, it isn't generally my first choice for a lot of things (outside o365). I'm often frustrated with working in Windows at work after about 6 years working outside windows. I use bash (from git) with windows, and there's quirks, but less than with LSW. I really want them to succeed as I think with the current leadership and direction a better MS means better options and tools for all. I wish they'd redouble their efforts on linux support for everything around Office and Teams though. I'd also like to be able to build/deploy a damned SQL project without windows too. In 2 years, by my own estimation, it will be a very different world running Windows as a developer and at that point it may become my favorite environment for building Linux apps of all things. MS/Windows progresses while Mac stagnates and alienates its creative/development/pro users more and more.

0-_-0 8y ago

People with less than 500 karma can't downvote though, so it's possible to end up with 40 upvotes even if the majority of people dislike Microsoft. Let's say 200 people wanted to vote on your post. 100 people with > 500 karma vote 45% up 55% down ending up with -10 karma total. 100 people with < 500 karma vote 45% up but the other 55% can't downvote = 35 total upvotes.

JohnFen 8y ago

I consider Microsoft more trustworthy than the other big tech companies because they behave in a more trustworthy fashion by (generally) being forthright about what they do and what their intentions are. That said, I avoid Microsoft products because I don't like what they do and what their intentions are. The difference between my attitude toward Microsoft and (for example) Facebook is that I make my decisions about Microsoft based on their products and services. I make my decisions about Facebook, etc., based on the fact that I don't trust them even a little. This means that Microsoft has the advantage -- if they cared whether or not I am on board with them (and they have no reason to), they could change my mind very quickly by altering their products. Facebook, etc., could not affect my attitude in the same way, as my main problem with them is that they are entirely untrustworthy.