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>But I also think they've got to be careful to avoid having apps that literally require you go in and manage a conf file on a phone. Then they should go get an

by swiley 8y ago

>But I also think they've got to be careful to avoid having apps that literally require you go in and manage a conf file on a phone. Then they should go get an iphone! 100% of the appeal for this phone is that you'll be able to run GNU/X11 on it. (there's privacy stuff too but that's a result of the openness) I already have conf files for most of the apps and use them on handhelds too.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
This is a bad opinion. :) We do not want people using iPhones if better options become available. For open to succeed, open has to still be appealing to the masses. The more people who embrace a true Linux platform, the more options you will have to buy phones running true Linux platforms. Aka, it is in your best interest to recognize you are an extremely uncommon user and that you benefit if more common users can use the product. Even as a fairly technical user who likes to have a lot of settings and options, I do not ever want to have to pop open a text editor on my phone to fix an app. I'm fine with it being possible to do so, but I had better never have to do it. Arguably, since the hardware should support you running whatever flavor of hackery you want, you should support the phone having apps designed with the average user in mind, knowing full well you are capable of customizing it to your liking anyways.
rchaud 8y ago
> 100% of the appeal for this phone is that you'll be able to run GNU/X11 on it. That's 100% of the appeal to you, and there aren't enough of you to make Librem sustainable. I say this as someone who was a big fan of what the Nokia N900 and Moko Phone were trying to achieve. Me, I'm looking for a phone that lets me live outside the Google/Apple ecosystem without reducing my choices to 720p screens and 1GB RAM. I installed Ubuntu on my laptop a few years ago out of curiosity and it was absurd how much configuration everything needed. Needing to open up a package manager to get something as simple as an MP3 Player app is not the UX you want your customers to have.
- kowbell 8y ago
  Definitely agree that configuration should be optional, not practically required. That's not just an annoyance to most people, it's a reason to avoid using something altogether. > Needing to open up a package manager to get something as simple as an MP3 Player app is not the UX you want your customers to have. This doesn't sound like a config issue though, that's more that the choices of preloaded packages could be better. A package manager isn't much different from an app store (assuming you meant one of the GUIs.) Just curious because it's been a while, what were some things you had to configure? And were you configuring to get it feeling more like OS X/Windows, or to have software that's usable at all?
moosingin3space 8y ago
> 100% of the appeal for this phone is that you'll be able to run GNU/X11 on it. I just got rid of X11 from all my desktop PCs, no way in hell I'm using that pile of shit on a phone. Also, it appeals to be because it's a phone that will support mainline Linux, NXP has been willing to support their products for longer terms than Qualcomm, puts the user firmly in the drivers' seat, and is being designed for eventual mainstream appeal.
- swiley 8y ago
  I’d get rid of X11 if there were something better. But the only alternative that I know of means gigabytes of crap from projects like gnome or kde and provides less functionality.

by swiley 8y ago

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

This is a bad opinion. :) We do not want people using iPhones if better options become available. For open to succeed, open has to still be appealing to the masses. The more people who embrace a true Linux platform, the more options you will have to buy phones running true Linux platforms. Aka, it is in your best interest to recognize you are an extremely uncommon user and that you benefit if more common users can use the product. Even as a fairly technical user who likes to have a lot of settings and options, I do not ever want to have to pop open a text editor on my phone to fix an app. I'm fine with it being possible to do so, but I had better never have to do it. Arguably, since the hardware should support you running whatever flavor of hackery you want, you should support the phone having apps designed with the average user in mind, knowing full well you are capable of customizing it to your liking anyways.

rchaud 8y ago

> 100% of the appeal for this phone is that you'll be able to run GNU/X11 on it. That's 100% of the appeal to you, and there aren't enough of you to make Librem sustainable. I say this as someone who was a big fan of what the Nokia N900 and Moko Phone were trying to achieve. Me, I'm looking for a phone that lets me live outside the Google/Apple ecosystem without reducing my choices to 720p screens and 1GB RAM. I installed Ubuntu on my laptop a few years ago out of curiosity and it was absurd how much configuration everything needed. Needing to open up a package manager to get something as simple as an MP3 Player app is not the UX you want your customers to have.

kowbell 8y ago
Definitely agree that configuration should be optional, not practically required. That's not just an annoyance to most people, it's a reason to avoid using something altogether. > Needing to open up a package manager to get something as simple as an MP3 Player app is not the UX you want your customers to have. This doesn't sound like a config issue though, that's more that the choices of preloaded packages could be better. A package manager isn't much different from an app store (assuming you meant one of the GUIs.) Just curious because it's been a while, what were some things you had to configure? And were you configuring to get it feeling more like OS X/Windows, or to have software that's usable at all?

moosingin3space 8y ago

> 100% of the appeal for this phone is that you'll be able to run GNU/X11 on it. I just got rid of X11 from all my desktop PCs, no way in hell I'm using that pile of shit on a phone. Also, it appeals to be because it's a phone that will support mainline Linux, NXP has been willing to support their products for longer terms than Qualcomm, puts the user firmly in the drivers' seat, and is being designed for eventual mainstream appeal.

swiley 8y ago
I’d get rid of X11 if there were something better. But the only alternative that I know of means gigabytes of crap from projects like gnome or kde and provides less functionality.