4 ms·

> Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects This is wrong. The current situation is "if you want to reliably contact gmail users you need a gmail ad

by benou 7y ago

> Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects This is wrong. The current situation is "if you want to reliably contact gmail users you need a gmail address". This is no different than Facebook or messengers. And that may actually be the incentive for Gmail being such a bad player compared to everybody else.

prlambert 7y ago
(also @reaperducer) Something I didn't fully appreciate until I got here was: 1. Work (aka enterprise) sends much more email than consumer, and 2. Outlook dominates enterprise. Their market share is pretty astounding. I assure you there is a lot of email coming from Outlook/Exchange.
- snowwrestler 7y ago
  My employer is one of those enterprises; we host our own Exchange server on our own hardware on our own IP address. I suspect that is not super relevant to this conversation, because there are a lot of signals that Google can use to see that we’re a big fish, and therefore automatically tread more lightly on the SMTP bouncing. We’re running Exchange, for one thing, which is not cheap or easy to use. We’re in the IP address of a big enterprise ISP. We have other enterprise services running on adjacent IPs, like OWA and websites. Small personal email servers have none of those sort of “ambient” signals; they’re probably running open source email server software on a single IP coming from a consumer ISP or general data center IP space. So the question might be why Google seems to react more to those ambient signals than other email providers. Because we have no issue at all getting personal emails into a Gmail inbox.
- int_19h 7y ago
  It doesn't feel like "... you need a GMail or an Outlook address" is much of an improvement.
toomim 7y ago
Also, AMP for Gmail only works in Gmail. https://www.blog.google/products/g-suite/bringing-power-amp-gmail/ https://www.blog.google/products/g-suite/bringing-power-amp-...
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  This is unfortunately technically untrue, as Google has beaten Outlook and Yahoo and Mail.ru into submission and into supporting it. It's still a huge security risk, and an inherently proprietary email spec Google designed and implemented without community input and deployed despite significant community resistance. But technically, it works outside of Gmail.
  - tomComb 7y ago
    > as Google has beaten Outlook and Yahoo and Mail.ru Microsoft and Verizon are hardly vulnerable timid players.
Viliam1234 7y ago
Perhaps the solution is to have two e-mail accounts: a GMail account to communicate with GMail users, and a non-GMail account to communicate with non-GMail users. Ideally, also a client that handles all this automatically, i.e. chooses the right sender account depending on the recipient, so that I don't have to think about it. Just like Pidgin was a common solution for AIM and ICQ, this would be a common solution for e-mail and GMail.

by benou 7y ago

prlambert 7y ago

(also @reaperducer) Something I didn't fully appreciate until I got here was: 1. Work (aka enterprise) sends much more email than consumer, and 2. Outlook dominates enterprise. Their market share is pretty astounding. I assure you there is a lot of email coming from Outlook/Exchange.

snowwrestler 7y ago
My employer is one of those enterprises; we host our own Exchange server on our own hardware on our own IP address. I suspect that is not super relevant to this conversation, because there are a lot of signals that Google can use to see that we’re a big fish, and therefore automatically tread more lightly on the SMTP bouncing. We’re running Exchange, for one thing, which is not cheap or easy to use. We’re in the IP address of a big enterprise ISP. We have other enterprise services running on adjacent IPs, like OWA and websites. Small personal email servers have none of those sort of “ambient” signals; they’re probably running open source email server software on a single IP coming from a consumer ISP or general data center IP space. So the question might be why Google seems to react more to those ambient signals than other email providers. Because we have no issue at all getting personal emails into a Gmail inbox.
int_19h 7y ago
It doesn't feel like "... you need a GMail or an Outlook address" is much of an improvement.

toomim 7y ago

Also, AMP for Gmail only works in Gmail. https://www.blog.google/products/g-suite/bringing-power-amp-gmail/ https://www.blog.google/products/g-suite/bringing-power-amp-...

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
This is unfortunately technically untrue, as Google has beaten Outlook and Yahoo and Mail.ru into submission and into supporting it. It's still a huge security risk, and an inherently proprietary email spec Google designed and implemented without community input and deployed despite significant community resistance. But technically, it works outside of Gmail.
- tomComb 7y ago
  > as Google has beaten Outlook and Yahoo and Mail.ru Microsoft and Verizon are hardly vulnerable timid players.

Viliam1234 7y ago

Perhaps the solution is to have two e-mail accounts: a GMail account to communicate with GMail users, and a non-GMail account to communicate with non-GMail users. Ideally, also a client that handles all this automatically, i.e. chooses the right sender account depending on the recipient, so that I don't have to think about it. Just like Pidgin was a common solution for AIM and ICQ, this would be a common solution for e-mail and GMail.