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I find your perspective very interesting, because I think most Westerners would really strongly disagree that China "took the best elements from the West". I t

by zwaps 8y ago

I find your perspective very interesting, because I think most Westerners would really strongly disagree that China "took the best elements from the West". I think we agree that China took whatever it could to make itself powerful. But if you ask a Western person, is it really the power of our countries that defines greatness? If I think of any country and what makes it great, I always end up thinking about things that definitely do not exist in China. I think the greatest moments of civilization are found in compassion, humanism, freedom, the fight for liberty, the preservation of peace, philosophy, art, music, poetry, scientific pursuit even against church&state etc. China doesn't care about these things, at all, or is overtly hostile to them if they compromise efficiency. China is not the first country to be very efficient while having concentration camps. People are afraid not because they don't respect China, nor because they think China is inferior. We are concerned because we think China has NOT taken the best from the Western world. In fact, quite the opposite.

netwanderer3 8y ago
You're right. I should have clarified myself better. Those best elements were mostly applied to building wealth for China and strengthening their economy only. Other aspects related to political ideologies which will always be very different from the West, and I believe those topics should always be avoided on HN. We have to understand that China has never been able to enjoy such economic power at this level throughout their history, so they have been waiting for this position for such a long time. Their current position may potentially reshape future history of human civilization. When you have the entire country concentrating all their effort on one and only one objective, the rest will have to take a backseat. For example, China didn't have to spend trillion of dollars going to war which was also another reason why they were able to laser focus on just one single goal. This definitely doesn't mean it would make China the most balanced country overall as everything in life is always a trade off. One may gain in one area but would always lose in another. I'm not saying people should be afraid of China, I'm only saying they should not lock themselves up in the old world, and instead be ready and willing to learn from others because obviously China must have been doing many things right to get here.
- cleong 8y ago
  I don't believe this is unique in China's history. Their economic power was certainly world class in previous times. They were a manufacturing powerhouse and held monopoly over many goods in a global trade network. Not only that, China had more power projection in the past. They had direct influence in current day Afghanistan and Central Asia until they lost at the battle of Talas River. As well as having tributary states in Japan and Korea. Currently, the US and allies surrounds China in such a way that they don't have the same influence.
cambalache 8y ago
So there is no literature, art, music, community, philosophy, traditions in China? China is far from perfect, but this holier-than-thou attitude is nauseating. It is awful to be a Tibetan or Huygur or even a college boy asking for reform, because China will crush you. At the same time it was/is awful to be a Guatemalan/Nicaraguan/Iraqi/Cambodian under American treatment so they see you as sub-human and disposable. So except for economic purchasing power difference (which are more or less rapidly decreasing) I dont see any substantial difference between China and USA.
- tepidandroid 8y ago
  > So there is no literature, art, music, community, philosophy, traditions in China? China is far from perfect, but this holier-than-thou attitude is nauseating. I stopped reading GP’s post at that point and began composing a similar reply, but quickly realized that the effort would be futile. People such as the GP are set in their views and seemingly content to broadcast pure ignorance.

by zwaps 8y ago

netwanderer3 8y ago

You're right. I should have clarified myself better. Those best elements were mostly applied to building wealth for China and strengthening their economy only. Other aspects related to political ideologies which will always be very different from the West, and I believe those topics should always be avoided on HN. We have to understand that China has never been able to enjoy such economic power at this level throughout their history, so they have been waiting for this position for such a long time. Their current position may potentially reshape future history of human civilization. When you have the entire country concentrating all their effort on one and only one objective, the rest will have to take a backseat. For example, China didn't have to spend trillion of dollars going to war which was also another reason why they were able to laser focus on just one single goal. This definitely doesn't mean it would make China the most balanced country overall as everything in life is always a trade off. One may gain in one area but would always lose in another. I'm not saying people should be afraid of China, I'm only saying they should not lock themselves up in the old world, and instead be ready and willing to learn from others because obviously China must have been doing many things right to get here.

cleong 8y ago
I don't believe this is unique in China's history. Their economic power was certainly world class in previous times. They were a manufacturing powerhouse and held monopoly over many goods in a global trade network. Not only that, China had more power projection in the past. They had direct influence in current day Afghanistan and Central Asia until they lost at the battle of Talas River. As well as having tributary states in Japan and Korea. Currently, the US and allies surrounds China in such a way that they don't have the same influence.

cambalache 8y ago

So there is no literature, art, music, community, philosophy, traditions in China? China is far from perfect, but this holier-than-thou attitude is nauseating. It is awful to be a Tibetan or Huygur or even a college boy asking for reform, because China will crush you. At the same time it was/is awful to be a Guatemalan/Nicaraguan/Iraqi/Cambodian under American treatment so they see you as sub-human and disposable. So except for economic purchasing power difference (which are more or less rapidly decreasing) I dont see any substantial difference between China and USA.

tepidandroid 8y ago
> So there is no literature, art, music, community, philosophy, traditions in China? China is far from perfect, but this holier-than-thou attitude is nauseating. I stopped reading GP’s post at that point and began composing a similar reply, but quickly realized that the effort would be futile. People such as the GP are set in their views and seemingly content to broadcast pure ignorance.