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Really? This is a greedy policy, not an engineering decision. How many engineers have managers they disagree with? I'm sure you've always quit every company in

Really? This is a greedy policy, not an engineering decision. How many engineers have managers they disagree with? I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation?

untog 8y ago
No-one is saying engineers chose the company policy, they're saying that engineers are complicit by working on it. Someone had to but that no-index instruction on the page, and they knew what they were doing. We're lucky (at least at this moment in time) that engineers are in huge demand. If you're an engineer at an ethically compromised company you could change jobs within a few months, tops. If you haven't then, yes, it's going to affect my opinion of you.
- Demiurge 8y ago
  That's ridiculous. Perhaps you can find in a few minutes, but I know plenty of people stuck in jobs they hate but can't find anything better. They are not quitting, and they can't move, because they have people that depend on them or other circumstances.
  - untog 8y ago
    Intuit is headquartered in Mountain View. No-one needs to move from there in order to secure a job an engineering job. If people depend on you then you can look for another job while keeping your current one - it's something I've done multiple times. And if you can't find a job in Mountain View then I certainly feel for you, but it may be time to take another look at your resume and work out what's going wrong.
- HeWhoLurksLate 8y ago
  One of my friend's parents works at a company where a large percentage of the engineers / etc. are corrupt (think Boeing with its FAA certifications done by fellow engineers, but with all the engineers agreeing to not look at each other's stuff)- and he decided to stay there and continue to work, despite the corruption- if the company goes down or gets attacked by the Feds, he has a lot of proof to show that he wasn't part of the problem. He's also sort of doing that classical destroy-the-company-from-the-inside thing.
mola 8y ago
(software) Engineers in todays economy are privileged with the ability to choose their jobs. I think people with power should help fix wrongs inflicted on other people and not silently comply for a share of the pie. I turned down a few jobs I found immoral even though the compensation was substantially higher than the alternatives. Not everyone have this privilege, but when you do, I believe there's a moral obligation to use it.
- thedragonline 8y ago
  I turned down contract work from a well-known telecom. The pay was great, unfortunately for them, I have no interest in helping them destroy your privacy. Of course, if I were desperate and had no runway, that would likely change the calculus. UBI would be a godsend in this regard.
JohnFen 8y ago
> I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation? I have absolutely quit jobs because I had serious issues with the way my employer did business. I would again. It makes sleeping at night a lot easier.
- Demiurge 8y ago
  Congratulations, very few people can say the same.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. A not insignificant percentage of my colleagues can say the same. My point is that everyone can, and does, decide this sort of thing for themselves. Very few people are actually, no matter how much they may think they are, trapped -- particularly at this point in time in our industry. At worst, it's a matter of how much disruption and discomfort they're willing to put up with to adhere to their principles.
    - thedragonline 7y ago
      When most are sitting in the long tail of wealth/income distributions, then maybe is the likelier answer.

Really? This is a greedy policy, not an engineering decision. How many engineers have managers they disagree with? I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation?

untog 8y ago

No-one is saying engineers chose the company policy, they're saying that engineers are complicit by working on it. Someone had to but that no-index instruction on the page, and they knew what they were doing. We're lucky (at least at this moment in time) that engineers are in huge demand. If you're an engineer at an ethically compromised company you could change jobs within a few months, tops. If you haven't then, yes, it's going to affect my opinion of you.

Demiurge 8y ago
That's ridiculous. Perhaps you can find in a few minutes, but I know plenty of people stuck in jobs they hate but can't find anything better. They are not quitting, and they can't move, because they have people that depend on them or other circumstances.
- untog 8y ago
  Intuit is headquartered in Mountain View. No-one needs to move from there in order to secure a job an engineering job. If people depend on you then you can look for another job while keeping your current one - it's something I've done multiple times. And if you can't find a job in Mountain View then I certainly feel for you, but it may be time to take another look at your resume and work out what's going wrong.
HeWhoLurksLate 8y ago
One of my friend's parents works at a company where a large percentage of the engineers / etc. are corrupt (think Boeing with its FAA certifications done by fellow engineers, but with all the engineers agreeing to not look at each other's stuff)- and he decided to stay there and continue to work, despite the corruption- if the company goes down or gets attacked by the Feds, he has a lot of proof to show that he wasn't part of the problem. He's also sort of doing that classical destroy-the-company-from-the-inside thing.

mola 8y ago

(software) Engineers in todays economy are privileged with the ability to choose their jobs. I think people with power should help fix wrongs inflicted on other people and not silently comply for a share of the pie. I turned down a few jobs I found immoral even though the compensation was substantially higher than the alternatives. Not everyone have this privilege, but when you do, I believe there's a moral obligation to use it.

thedragonline 8y ago
I turned down contract work from a well-known telecom. The pay was great, unfortunately for them, I have no interest in helping them destroy your privacy. Of course, if I were desperate and had no runway, that would likely change the calculus. UBI would be a godsend in this regard.

JohnFen 8y ago

> I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation? I have absolutely quit jobs because I had serious issues with the way my employer did business. I would again. It makes sleeping at night a lot easier.

Demiurge 8y ago
Congratulations, very few people can say the same.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  Maybe, maybe not. A not insignificant percentage of my colleagues can say the same. My point is that everyone can, and does, decide this sort of thing for themselves. Very few people are actually, no matter how much they may think they are, trapped -- particularly at this point in time in our industry. At worst, it's a matter of how much disruption and discomfort they're willing to put up with to adhere to their principles.
  - thedragonline 7y ago
    When most are sitting in the long tail of wealth/income distributions, then maybe is the likelier answer.