5 ms·

> Microsoft doesn't get a bad rep like facebook or google, because their business model is not based on pushing ads onto their users and selling their users' da

> Microsoft doesn't get a bad rep like facebook or google, because their business model is not based on pushing ads onto their users and selling their users' data, which everybody hates. You mean they don't put ads in the windows home menu or hundred of spywares in the OS ? Or that they don't have ads in bings, skype or outlook ? > Apple's bad rep is probably due to high pricing, tech lock-in, horrible apple store experience, bad behavior regarding right-to-repair, pretty bad software overall. Or maybe you mean they don't lock in with proprietary formats, avoiding to publish the specs and when they then do don't follow it like with Office ? Hopefully this has been compensated by the fantastic Windows Update experience and good behavior. I'm not an FB, Apple or Google fan. In fact I don't have an FB account, I voluntarily don't buy Apple products and refused a job interview with Google. But let's not forget the numerous bad deeds of MS. That's how we never solve the problems we have: we let people misbehave and after a while, they are all forgiven. It's the same with politics, bad bosses, abusive spouses, etc. Don't let people forget.

flyingpenguin 7y ago
I mean every company has problems... Microsoft just seems to be generally headed in a better direction vs worse which seems way more common.
- sametmax 7y ago
  Every people have problems too. Some beat their wife, some are a bit moody. MS has been repeatedly caught lying, cheating, insulting and corrupting. Can I slap you if I give a treat to a puppy later ? Because being pro-microsoft now that their PR is more human and their actions more positive looks pretty much like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they make TypeScript and VSCode. But they need 20 years of being a good boy to compensate for what they did. More if we want to take in consideration they became incredibly rich doing it.
  - intern4tional 7y ago
    They don't need 20 years of anything; they simply needed a change in leadership, which they got. Satya is drastically changing the culture and with it the business. I get there are people out there that will always have an ax to grind (you seem to be one of those) but if you wait 20 years to trust a business again, you'll be left behind with any improvements or optimizations that happen in the meantime. If Microsoft sustains its direction for a few more years at most, given the pace at which the industry they are in evolves, the legacy practices they had won't much matter.
    - sametmax 7y ago
      The way you see things leads to the society of today, where big companies have powers close to the state, and very little accountability. If it's ok to accumulate immense wealth and power by misbehaving for 20 years, and just with switching a head and orienting PR, it's all forgiven, then why not keep doing it ?
    - whydoineedthis 7y ago
      Left behind? I haven't been compelled to own or use a Microsoft product in 10 years. I would be surprised if it changed in the next 10.
- PascLeRasc 7y ago
  We're not wedded to these big tech companies. I don't know why we need to forgive them at all. Let's talk about smaller companies making interesting products that haven't betrayed our trust, like System76, Lulzbot, or Purism. There's a whole world of hardware and software out there.
  - naikrovek 7y ago
    We don't need to forgive them, I personally just don't have the energy to remain angry at a company that has CLEARLY changed direction significantly. All of you are of course free to remain pissed off at anyone or anything you want. Just be mindful of why you're mad, and make sure once in a while that it's still worth being angry about.
nightski 7y ago
First of all, I've never seen an ad in my start menu. You can disable live tiles. Second, anonymous telemetry is not spyware.
- sametmax 7y ago
  "It's not stealing your wallet, it's anonymous redistribution of wealth"
- doingmyting 7y ago
  I still don't get the aversion and outcry at any sign of data collection from software companies. It just seems so cultish. Media tells you data being collected is bad so you grab your pitchfork. If a company is collecting my data without my consent non-anonymously and selling it for profit then yes I don't like that. But why the outcry of a company collecting data anonymously to make a product I use regularly better for me?
- Bartweiss 7y ago
  After perhaps the fourth time I disabled Cortana and cleaned up mysteriously re-enabled bloatware on the Start menu, I started getting the same "I don't own this device" feeling I've had for years with smartphones. It's obviously less egregious than e.g. Facebook, but it's also a more fundamental element of the stack where I'm less willing to tolerate bad behavior. If it was simply a matter of doing a bunch of cleanup one, I'd get over it. But between buggy, user-unfriendly update features and instantly-out-of-date instructions on what I need to turn off, it's uncomfortably reminiscent of Android's issues.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- kurtisc 7y ago
  >Second, anonymous telemetry is not spyware. On this note: if you opt-out of telemetry, don't complain when your power-user features stop being catered to.
diehunde 7y ago
Maybe but it's not their main source of revenue like with Google and Facebook. So they don't have to go crazy doing unethical stuff in that area (privacy) which is what people tend to care most about these days.
- sametmax 7y ago
  "They are not as bad as they could be" is not an argument.
  - PascLeRasc 7y ago
    Don't worry, in a few years we won't even be able to make that argument: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/nadella-microsoft-will-sell-war-tech-to-democracies-to-protect-freedoms/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/nadella-microsoft-wi...
  - diehunde 7y ago
    I'm not making any argument in their favor. I'm talking about the ads discussion.

flyingpenguin 7y ago

I mean every company has problems... Microsoft just seems to be generally headed in a better direction vs worse which seems way more common.

sametmax 7y ago
Every people have problems too. Some beat their wife, some are a bit moody. MS has been repeatedly caught lying, cheating, insulting and corrupting. Can I slap you if I give a treat to a puppy later ? Because being pro-microsoft now that their PR is more human and their actions more positive looks pretty much like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they make TypeScript and VSCode. But they need 20 years of being a good boy to compensate for what they did. More if we want to take in consideration they became incredibly rich doing it.
- intern4tional 7y ago
  They don't need 20 years of anything; they simply needed a change in leadership, which they got. Satya is drastically changing the culture and with it the business. I get there are people out there that will always have an ax to grind (you seem to be one of those) but if you wait 20 years to trust a business again, you'll be left behind with any improvements or optimizations that happen in the meantime. If Microsoft sustains its direction for a few more years at most, given the pace at which the industry they are in evolves, the legacy practices they had won't much matter.
  - sametmax 7y ago
    The way you see things leads to the society of today, where big companies have powers close to the state, and very little accountability. If it's ok to accumulate immense wealth and power by misbehaving for 20 years, and just with switching a head and orienting PR, it's all forgiven, then why not keep doing it ?
  - whydoineedthis 7y ago
    Left behind? I haven't been compelled to own or use a Microsoft product in 10 years. I would be surprised if it changed in the next 10.
PascLeRasc 7y ago
We're not wedded to these big tech companies. I don't know why we need to forgive them at all. Let's talk about smaller companies making interesting products that haven't betrayed our trust, like System76, Lulzbot, or Purism. There's a whole world of hardware and software out there.
- naikrovek 7y ago
  We don't need to forgive them, I personally just don't have the energy to remain angry at a company that has CLEARLY changed direction significantly. All of you are of course free to remain pissed off at anyone or anything you want. Just be mindful of why you're mad, and make sure once in a while that it's still worth being angry about.

nightski 7y ago

First of all, I've never seen an ad in my start menu. You can disable live tiles. Second, anonymous telemetry is not spyware.

sametmax 7y ago
"It's not stealing your wallet, it's anonymous redistribution of wealth"
doingmyting 7y ago
I still don't get the aversion and outcry at any sign of data collection from software companies. It just seems so cultish. Media tells you data being collected is bad so you grab your pitchfork. If a company is collecting my data without my consent non-anonymously and selling it for profit then yes I don't like that. But why the outcry of a company collecting data anonymously to make a product I use regularly better for me?
Bartweiss 7y ago
After perhaps the fourth time I disabled Cortana and cleaned up mysteriously re-enabled bloatware on the Start menu, I started getting the same "I don't own this device" feeling I've had for years with smartphones. It's obviously less egregious than e.g. Facebook, but it's also a more fundamental element of the stack where I'm less willing to tolerate bad behavior. If it was simply a matter of doing a bunch of cleanup one, I'd get over it. But between buggy, user-unfriendly update features and instantly-out-of-date instructions on what I need to turn off, it's uncomfortably reminiscent of Android's issues.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
kurtisc 7y ago
>Second, anonymous telemetry is not spyware. On this note: if you opt-out of telemetry, don't complain when your power-user features stop being catered to.

diehunde 7y ago

Maybe but it's not their main source of revenue like with Google and Facebook. So they don't have to go crazy doing unethical stuff in that area (privacy) which is what people tend to care most about these days.

sametmax 7y ago
"They are not as bad as they could be" is not an argument.
- PascLeRasc 7y ago
  Don't worry, in a few years we won't even be able to make that argument: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/nadella-microsoft-will-sell-war-tech-to-democracies-to-protect-freedoms/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/nadella-microsoft-wi...
- diehunde 7y ago
  I'm not making any argument in their favor. I'm talking about the ads discussion.