4 ms·

If you could tell me even one application of this technology outside of cryptocurrency, I'd genuinely be interested.

by chris_wot 8y ago

hschoenburg 8y ago
DNS -> https://handshake.org https://handshake.org
- IncRnd 8y ago
  Have you considered the downside of an attack against such a DNS system? That is a severe drawback to handshake that limits trust in such a system. This exemplifies the argument you are trying to refute, that using a blockchain as a solution is often poor design.
  - mhluongo 8y ago
    Care to explain that hand-wavy downside?
    - tastroder 8y ago
      The link you posted doesn't even aim for replacing DNS, by the abstract and landing page it seems to be an experimental setup to replace the root zone which has been signed for nearly 10 years now. DNSSEC is a thing. Don't really see what's hand-wavy about your parent comment tbh, the link you posted doesn't seem to address common scenarios like 51% attacks or even why our current system is flawed. The only tangible thing I can find in there is that they don't like trusting verisign - which is fine but really a weird narrative to demonstrate why the world needs that particular implementation.
      - mhluongo 8y ago
        I didn't post the link. I'm just asking for details about an unspecified attack in your comment, or really any pointed criticism at all (:
        IncRnd 8y ago
        It isn't hand-wavy. However, it is problematic when people propose solutions to fundamental design issues, without knowing the threat model. In the link that was posted, a pollution of a distributed root zone will vitiate the entire Internet's DNS. That is the vulnerability, and there are many attacks that will achieve that for the link that was posted.
DennisP 8y ago
Do you mean outside of any involvement with currency, or just outside of simple transfers of currency? Because a lot of things are applications of programmable money, like derivatives, exchanges, and gambling. Beyond that, some games are using public blockchains to track ownership of game items.
- acdha 8y ago
  None of which seem to intrinsically need a blockchain or be more competitive for using one. All of the real volume in those activity classes not using blockchains would need some explanation.
  - 4ntonius8lock 8y ago
    I see it being used in public registry points. For example, property records. Right now there are considerable checks and balances needed to ensure there aren't funny things going on with the books when they are locked away at night. This isn't as pressing an issue in the US, but it is a massive problem worldwide. Central governments in some countries want to be able to track property without the record keepers stealing it. I don't think we'll see this widespread for the next 20-30 years. But imagine when existing power structures have absorbed this tech and they can then sell it - like VISA selling a block chain property registry to countries where the money is auto transferred in local currency from one end user to another while communicating to the countries central bank... maybe with tie in to bio metrics for ID and transaction verification and automatic tax payments. Hardly a disruption from existing nation state and corporate power structures, but definitively a disruption in the possibilities of what can be offered.
  - DennisP 8y ago
    It's just computation and storage, so of course you can do it on a server. Three things blockchains provide: you don't need to trust anyone with custody of your assets, you have censorship resistance, and users pay for all the resources they use so don't need a business model just to keep it running.
WalterSear 8y ago
* Decentralized, anonymized reputation management. Imagine an ebay score that couldn't be owned by ebay, or any another company. * Decentralized digital Asset ownership verification. Again, imagine facebook without a facebook. Or imagine purchase a music or software token that you could use on any provider, and never expired. Sign up for a new streaming service and take all your songs/videos/games with you from the old one. * All the legal structures of a company, purchased off the shelf, handling all the vagaries of human resources and accounting, but without managers or payroll accountants. Just remote teammates, who may never have worked before, but know they will get paid a salary, receive evaluations and promotions from their peers. These are just toy examples, I'm sure if I took more than a few seconds, I could give you much better ones. The problem with blockchain isn't finding applications - it's finding monetizable ones. All the examples above would make amazing open source projects, but IMHO would be very difficult to generate revenue without compromising their decentralized nature, by inserting oneself into the transactions to take a cut. Centralized control of an application is almost a requirement for monetization, and, blockchains, are, by definition, intended to circumvent centralization. Moreover, trust and verification aren't new problems, and we already have plenty of centralized solutions for these problems. So, blockchain applications both have to be better than what was there before, and work around the decentralized nature of the system. Consequently, people trying to make a living on the blockchain mostly resort to monetizing the networks themselves - in other words, developing cryptocurrency-like products of some form. Is this decentralized? Not entirely, but it's less centralized than what came before. If people disagree with the behaviour oof the ethereum foundation, they can fork the currency. However, this still a long cry from actual decentralization. It is certainly an open question what value 'kindof-sortof' decentralized networks provide.
- Ninjaneered 8y ago
  > Decentralized, anonymized reputation management. Imagine an ebay score that couldn't be owned by ebay, or any another company This reputation system is one application I'd really like to see in the future. It's silly that we have sepearte silos of reputation (eBay, Amazon, credit scores, etc.) that are each controlled by a company. In our increasingly global world, who would we trust to govern this system? Seems like a legitimate application for a blockchain (including consensus).
DesiLurker 8y ago
Land parcel record management. Especially in developing countries like India there are often cases of 'double spending' motivated by bribery. having open distributed records would make use & validation of such records more robust.

If you could tell me even one application of this technology outside of cryptocurrency, I'd genuinely be interested.

hschoenburg 8y ago

DNS -> https://handshake.org https://handshake.org

IncRnd 8y ago
Have you considered the downside of an attack against such a DNS system? That is a severe drawback to handshake that limits trust in such a system. This exemplifies the argument you are trying to refute, that using a blockchain as a solution is often poor design.
- mhluongo 8y ago
  Care to explain that hand-wavy downside?
  - tastroder 8y ago
    The link you posted doesn't even aim for replacing DNS, by the abstract and landing page it seems to be an experimental setup to replace the root zone which has been signed for nearly 10 years now. DNSSEC is a thing. Don't really see what's hand-wavy about your parent comment tbh, the link you posted doesn't seem to address common scenarios like 51% attacks or even why our current system is flawed. The only tangible thing I can find in there is that they don't like trusting verisign - which is fine but really a weird narrative to demonstrate why the world needs that particular implementation.
    - mhluongo 8y ago
      I didn't post the link. I'm just asking for details about an unspecified attack in your comment, or really any pointed criticism at all (:
      - IncRnd 8y ago
        It isn't hand-wavy. However, it is problematic when people propose solutions to fundamental design issues, without knowing the threat model. In the link that was posted, a pollution of a distributed root zone will vitiate the entire Internet's DNS. That is the vulnerability, and there are many attacks that will achieve that for the link that was posted.

DennisP 8y ago

Do you mean outside of any involvement with currency, or just outside of simple transfers of currency? Because a lot of things are applications of programmable money, like derivatives, exchanges, and gambling. Beyond that, some games are using public blockchains to track ownership of game items.

acdha 8y ago
None of which seem to intrinsically need a blockchain or be more competitive for using one. All of the real volume in those activity classes not using blockchains would need some explanation.
- 4ntonius8lock 8y ago
  I see it being used in public registry points. For example, property records. Right now there are considerable checks and balances needed to ensure there aren't funny things going on with the books when they are locked away at night. This isn't as pressing an issue in the US, but it is a massive problem worldwide. Central governments in some countries want to be able to track property without the record keepers stealing it. I don't think we'll see this widespread for the next 20-30 years. But imagine when existing power structures have absorbed this tech and they can then sell it - like VISA selling a block chain property registry to countries where the money is auto transferred in local currency from one end user to another while communicating to the countries central bank... maybe with tie in to bio metrics for ID and transaction verification and automatic tax payments. Hardly a disruption from existing nation state and corporate power structures, but definitively a disruption in the possibilities of what can be offered.
- DennisP 8y ago
  It's just computation and storage, so of course you can do it on a server. Three things blockchains provide: you don't need to trust anyone with custody of your assets, you have censorship resistance, and users pay for all the resources they use so don't need a business model just to keep it running.

WalterSear 8y ago

* Decentralized, anonymized reputation management. Imagine an ebay score that couldn't be owned by ebay, or any another company. * Decentralized digital Asset ownership verification. Again, imagine facebook without a facebook. Or imagine purchase a music or software token that you could use on any provider, and never expired. Sign up for a new streaming service and take all your songs/videos/games with you from the old one. * All the legal structures of a company, purchased off the shelf, handling all the vagaries of human resources and accounting, but without managers or payroll accountants. Just remote teammates, who may never have worked before, but know they will get paid a salary, receive evaluations and promotions from their peers. These are just toy examples, I'm sure if I took more than a few seconds, I could give you much better ones. The problem with blockchain isn't finding applications - it's finding monetizable ones. All the examples above would make amazing open source projects, but IMHO would be very difficult to generate revenue without compromising their decentralized nature, by inserting oneself into the transactions to take a cut. Centralized control of an application is almost a requirement for monetization, and, blockchains, are, by definition, intended to circumvent centralization. Moreover, trust and verification aren't new problems, and we already have plenty of centralized solutions for these problems. So, blockchain applications both have to be better than what was there before, and work around the decentralized nature of the system. Consequently, people trying to make a living on the blockchain mostly resort to monetizing the networks themselves - in other words, developing cryptocurrency-like products of some form. Is this decentralized? Not entirely, but it's less centralized than what came before. If people disagree with the behaviour oof the ethereum foundation, they can fork the currency. However, this still a long cry from actual decentralization. It is certainly an open question what value 'kindof-sortof' decentralized networks provide.

Ninjaneered 8y ago
> Decentralized, anonymized reputation management. Imagine an ebay score that couldn't be owned by ebay, or any another company This reputation system is one application I'd really like to see in the future. It's silly that we have sepearte silos of reputation (eBay, Amazon, credit scores, etc.) that are each controlled by a company. In our increasingly global world, who would we trust to govern this system? Seems like a legitimate application for a blockchain (including consensus).

DesiLurker 8y ago

Land parcel record management. Especially in developing countries like India there are often cases of 'double spending' motivated by bribery. having open distributed records would make use & validation of such records more robust.