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I always find it weird when Hacker News gets obsessed with productivity. Productivity is what employers want, as an employee I couldn't care less if our open of

I always find it weird when Hacker News gets obsessed with productivity. Productivity is what employers want, as an employee I couldn't care less if our open office plan or our heavy use of slack makes me less productive, that's a problem for my employer to recognize and solve for if they decide they care.

diminoten 7y ago
Why don't you care about your own productivity? Part of the agreement you struck with your employer is that you provide value, don't you want to provide that value?
- ggm 7y ago
  Asymmetric agreement asymmetric benefit.
- notfromhere 7y ago
  If you provide value X to an employer for payment Y, they're not going to increase your payment in proportion to your increase in productivity. Frequently employers won't give you any additional compensation for increased productivity. So the game theory really favors workers optimizing the time it takes to provide value X
  - diminoten 7y ago
    The agreement isn't for X, the agreement was for "whatever you can provide". You don't provide a unit of work, you provide "your brain as applied to the problems of the company". Game theory is for the company to fire you and find someone who will honor their contract...
    - notfromhere 7y ago
      Your employer hires you to solve a problem, they don't get rights to unlimited productivity. You're held to a specific quality/output of work, and as long as that's satisfactory, you remain employed. The game theory is to produce enough quality/output to remain employed. An employee increasing their productivity without increased compensation for said productivity is a bit of a sucker.
      - diminoten 7y ago
        They hire you for whatever they hire you for. If you're hourly, sure what you said applies. Otherwise, no, they bought your brain. The game theory is to find the people who believe this, and to get rid of people who don't.
        yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        > Otherwise, no, they bought your brain. No, they rent some of it. Like a cloud host; you don't own the hardware, you're timesharing. > The game theory is to find the people who believe this, and to get rid of people who don't. Companies prefer to hire suckers if they can, yes.
        diminoten 7y ago
        Depends on your contact with your employer. If you're exempt and not hourly, they don't rent your brain for a period of time, they rent it to solve a set of problems. The volume those problems, and the rate they expect you to solve them at is up to your employer. Their only limit is to not assign you so much work you quit. That's it.
        speedplane 7y ago
        >> The game theory is to find the people who believe this, and to get rid of people who don't. > Companies prefer to hire suckers if they can, yes. Pretty cynical, no? Obviously employers make more money off their employees than they pay them, otherwise they wouldn't be in business, but that doesn't make an employee a sucker.
        notfromhere 7y ago
        An employee is definitely a sucker if they indefinitely keep increasing output without a rise in compensation.
        diminoten 7y ago
- cmqq 7y ago
  This is a stupid question. The employer is the one forcing constant distractions. You can (and I have done so) rebel against the distractions, but it is not going to make you popular. At best you'll be classified as a willing work horse.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    It's only a stupid question if you're not playing by the rules a ton of your colleagues/competitors are, which makes them a better pick than you.
    - nallt 7y ago
      Another megalomaniac who thinks he can lecture everyone here. You'll probably be featured on n-gate next week.
      - diminoten 7y ago
        Hello new account! You'll find you're on HN, not Reddit. Try to live up to that please, thanks!
realbarack 7y ago
This is the news site for Y Combinator, a startup accelerator. Anyone interested in startups should also be interested in how to build a culture that's conducive to happy, productive employees, because startups that do that will probably have a better shot at success.
icedchai 7y ago
Yes, especially given that many of us spend 25% of our day on HN and Reddit...
walshemj 7y ago
I think 99% of us would love to be able to get into flowstate and actually get chunks of work done.
jen729w 7y ago
I want to work better for my own pride, not to make my employer happy. I want to do better work because it makes me feel good at the end of the day, not because it adds to someone else’s bottom line; that it does so is a happy side-effect. That said, if you’re working for “an employer” and you don’t give a shit about them or the job, you should find something else to do. You seem happy enough to take their money?
x2f10 7y ago
I see high productivity as a vehicle that allows me to stand out amongst my peers without working 80 hours a week.
- codyb 7y ago
  Yea having a productive day is the best way for me to not feel stressed after I leave work and a great way to have bullet points for my resume.
tombert 7y ago
I can't speak for anyone else, but I get genuinely depressed if I don't feel like I accomplished much at the end of the day. I have never gone home at the end of the day and said "man, I wish I could have spent more time checking email today".

diminoten 7y ago

Why don't you care about your own productivity? Part of the agreement you struck with your employer is that you provide value, don't you want to provide that value?

ggm 7y ago
Asymmetric agreement asymmetric benefit.
notfromhere 7y ago
If you provide value X to an employer for payment Y, they're not going to increase your payment in proportion to your increase in productivity. Frequently employers won't give you any additional compensation for increased productivity. So the game theory really favors workers optimizing the time it takes to provide value X
- diminoten 7y ago
  The agreement isn't for X, the agreement was for "whatever you can provide". You don't provide a unit of work, you provide "your brain as applied to the problems of the company". Game theory is for the company to fire you and find someone who will honor their contract...
  - notfromhere 7y ago
    Your employer hires you to solve a problem, they don't get rights to unlimited productivity. You're held to a specific quality/output of work, and as long as that's satisfactory, you remain employed. The game theory is to produce enough quality/output to remain employed. An employee increasing their productivity without increased compensation for said productivity is a bit of a sucker.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      They hire you for whatever they hire you for. If you're hourly, sure what you said applies. Otherwise, no, they bought your brain. The game theory is to find the people who believe this, and to get rid of people who don't.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        > Otherwise, no, they bought your brain. No, they rent some of it. Like a cloud host; you don't own the hardware, you're timesharing. > The game theory is to find the people who believe this, and to get rid of people who don't. Companies prefer to hire suckers if they can, yes.
        diminoten 7y ago
        Depends on your contact with your employer. If you're exempt and not hourly, they don't rent your brain for a period of time, they rent it to solve a set of problems. The volume those problems, and the rate they expect you to solve them at is up to your employer. Their only limit is to not assign you so much work you quit. That's it.
        speedplane 7y ago
        >> The game theory is to find the people who believe this, and to get rid of people who don't. > Companies prefer to hire suckers if they can, yes. Pretty cynical, no? Obviously employers make more money off their employees than they pay them, otherwise they wouldn't be in business, but that doesn't make an employee a sucker.
        notfromhere 7y ago
        An employee is definitely a sucker if they indefinitely keep increasing output without a rise in compensation.
        diminoten 7y ago
cmqq 7y ago
This is a stupid question. The employer is the one forcing constant distractions. You can (and I have done so) rebel against the distractions, but it is not going to make you popular. At best you'll be classified as a willing work horse.
- diminoten 7y ago
  It's only a stupid question if you're not playing by the rules a ton of your colleagues/competitors are, which makes them a better pick than you.
  - nallt 7y ago
    Another megalomaniac who thinks he can lecture everyone here. You'll probably be featured on n-gate next week.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      Hello new account! You'll find you're on HN, not Reddit. Try to live up to that please, thanks!

realbarack 7y ago

This is the news site for Y Combinator, a startup accelerator. Anyone interested in startups should also be interested in how to build a culture that's conducive to happy, productive employees, because startups that do that will probably have a better shot at success.

icedchai 7y ago

Yes, especially given that many of us spend 25% of our day on HN and Reddit...

walshemj 7y ago

I think 99% of us would love to be able to get into flowstate and actually get chunks of work done.

jen729w 7y ago

I want to work better for my own pride, not to make my employer happy. I want to do better work because it makes me feel good at the end of the day, not because it adds to someone else’s bottom line; that it does so is a happy side-effect. That said, if you’re working for “an employer” and you don’t give a shit about them or the job, you should find something else to do. You seem happy enough to take their money?

x2f10 7y ago

I see high productivity as a vehicle that allows me to stand out amongst my peers without working 80 hours a week.

codyb 7y ago
Yea having a productive day is the best way for me to not feel stressed after I leave work and a great way to have bullet points for my resume.

tombert 7y ago

I can't speak for anyone else, but I get genuinely depressed if I don't feel like I accomplished much at the end of the day. I have never gone home at the end of the day and said "man, I wish I could have spent more time checking email today".