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>Music is really complex and leans heavily on both emotions and creativity, which aren't even on the radar for AI. I definitely think creativity is on the rada
by leesec 7y ago
>Music is really complex and leans heavily on both emotions and creativity, which aren't even on the radar for AI.
I definitely think creativity is on the radar for AI, see: AlphaGo. Everything we think is based on emotions is ultimately learnable.
- CuriouslyC 7y agoI don't think alpha go is a good example here. It play with strange brilliance, but I wouldn't call that creativity. If you care to elaborate on why you said this I'm curious to hear your rational. To me, creativity is really about generation of "aesthetic novelty" which is hard to get from a ML algorithm that is trying to approximate patterns in training data. Eventually, there will be models trained on a wide variety of art, music, stories, etc that can recognize aesthetic and structural isomorphism between mediums (say between a grizzly picture and death metal), then we'll lose our competitive advantage. I don't think we're nearly so close to that as the singularity types would have us believe though.
- leesec 7y agoI suppose I was loosely defining creativity as "ability to generate novelty or novel insight". People call AlphaGo created because he demonstrated a new and novel way to play that has since influenced others. AI Music will eventually teach us things about music in a similar way.
- jmmcd 7y agoTheorists of creativity eg Margaret Biden don't limit it to aesthetic domains. They include creativity in Go, in mathematics, even in coding. Marcus Du Sautoy has a recent intro book.
- TaupeRanger 7y agoGo is a game with a strict ruleset. The comparison is not valid.
- leesec 7y agoOne could say music is also a game with a strict ruleset. Indeed having played the piano for 20+ years now, I often think of how no matter how good I am, I won't invent a new form of music or even style of music, I am limited to the 'rules' of my piano.
- dTal 7y agoYou might be. That hardly means that music is. Music is whatever humans think is cool to listen to. Actually I think "inventing new forms of music" is a pretty great musical Turing test. How much neural-network training would it take to make an AI that can take the sum total of existing music, extrapolate the rules, and then deliberately break those rules in such a way as to make something that humans would find interesting?
- CuriouslyC 7y agoThat doesn't surprise me, if all you do is follow the rules of music theory on a standard piano. If you creatively deviate from music theory and modify your instrument (or create a new instrument) you could easily come up with something new, the question is whether anyone besides you would enjoy it.
- TaupeRanger 7y agoOne could not say that. The question is not about creating new styles or "forms" (??) of music. It is about creating compositions. I was only objecting to your use of AlphaGo as being based on "emotions" and being "creative". It is not generating explanatory knowledge, which is the kind of creativity we actually care about when we talk about AI. With current methods, you can only solve problems that have narrow optimization goals which are easily defined.