5 ms·

Health conscious people prefer margarine to butter on a hiking trip? Must be some pretty relaxed trips: Food is fuel, the more calories the better! I carry pe

Health conscious people prefer margarine to butter on a hiking trip? Must be some pretty relaxed trips: Food is fuel, the more calories the better! I carry peanut butter and Crisco on my backpacking and canoeing trips...they're heavy, but nutritionally dense! A peanut butter jar might last you two months at home, but you can likely expect to be packing the empty jar out with you after a week in the woods.

ghaff 8y ago
Most people doing weekend trips don't suddenly abandon their day to day eating habits and start eating jars of peanut butter and mayonnaise. ADDED: That wasn't intended as snark but my observation is that most people on weekend dayhike trips or even multi-day backpacks maintain fairly conventional eating habits even if they're not energy/weight optimal. I certainly do.
jdminhbg 8y ago
The calories aren't the issue; as far as I know butter and margarine have about the same amount per serving. Margarine was preferred because it was thought that the saturated fat in butter was going to clog your arteries and kill you.
- atomical 8y ago
  Saturated fat is bad for health. This is established science and your comment is science denial. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/fat/art-20045550 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
  - phonypc 8y ago
    It's not nearly that simple. And the person you're responding to didn't even actually deny that saturated fat is unhealthy, why jump on them like that? Needlessly inflammatory.
    - atomical 8y ago
      You're being disingenuous. Please stop. > Margarine was preferred because it was thought that the saturated fat in butter was going to clog your arteries and kill you.
      - tomhoward 8y ago
        You do seem unreasonable and unnecessarily combative in this subthread. I've had to read over it several times to figure out how your comments are appropriate replies, and I’m not seeing it. That commenter wasn't mounting an argument for a position on whether or not "saturated fat in butter was going to clog your arteries and kill you" - just explaining the thinking behind those who preferred margarine. But it's also not "established science" that "saturated fat is bad for health". If it were that simple, any food containing saturated fat would never appear in the "healthy in low-moderate quantities" section of a mainstream recommended diet chart. Clearly that's not the case, and clearly many experts have different things to say about this topic. So, please stop throwing around accusations of "science denial", when any person who engages seriously with this topic knows that it is still a matter of ongoing research and discussion.
        atomical 8y ago
        You are incorrect and denying science as well. Trump uses the same logic to deny climate change. He says many experts disagree. Your opinion is not equal to fact. I'm sorry. Please stop being a science denier.
        atomical 8y ago
        Trump uses the same logic to deny climate change.
        tomhoward 8y ago
        This is an appallingly bad-faith style of discussion. You must know full well this terminology is used for its evocative link to holocaust denial. Not that it should make a difference to how you conduct yourself, but I’ve had cause to research this topic in order to get myself through serious health issues. So I know what it looks like when people are or aren’t engaging with this topic with honesty. It’s a deeply important topic that deserves better than crap like this, particularly from a longtime user of this site.
  - avinium 8y ago
    You should be careful about making blanket statements like "established science" and "science denial". It makes you come off as an extremist, and in fact, the page you linked makes no such claims and is far more moderate. It talks only about potentially harmful dietary fats. > Research about the possible harms and benefits of dietary fat is always evolving. Current evidence suggests that the smart play is to focus on choosing healthier fats and avoiding the less healthy ones. Researchers (particularly those in the field of nutrition) have got things completely wrong before. An important part of being a good scientist is knowing the limits of the current body of research.
    - atomical 8y ago
      Yeah, it's only what 99% of doctors in the US would recommend but I'm the extremist...
kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
Makes as much sense as zero-calorie sports drinks. Food shaming has trained people to want things that are of no use to them.
watwut 8y ago
That is not true even on difficult hikes. You need more calories then normal, but it is not like you would suddenly had to eat tripple portion of everything else you die. Also, it is not like extreme cardio or weight lifting. You can go on for hours without eating. It won't feel great, but won't be big issue either. Besides, for long hikes and climbs, people minimize weight. Bin of peanut butter to go through in two days sound excesive.
- ejolto 8y ago
  Bringing butter, peanut butter or mayonnaise on a hike is not about eating more but about carrying less. 300g of butter for example is about 2150 calories, enough food for a day for a small person. Compare that to pasta and you would need to carry more than 1.6 kg for the same amount of calories. If you're going on a five day hike you're carrying 8 kg of pasta vs only 1.5 kg of butter. That said I only bring butter and mayonnaise on week long hikes, for weekends or day trips I don't bother.
  - watwut 8y ago
    Pasta sounds like highly theoretical food for a hike. I have yet to see anyone who would carry pasta or similar food for a hike as main source of calories. Sounds impractical and waste of space. Or raw butter which would melt in the heat. Also, eating 300g of butter as energy source for whole day sounds like one of those things that makes your stomach go real bad. Quick energy in sugary food weights a little and comes in gazimilion sources. Proteins bars or dry meant are easy to get, weight a little and have enough calories. Both are slow calories. But besides, already traditional bread and ham or sausage or bacon or whatever are good enough for day hike. Or any kind of already cooked meat that can survive a day. You do not need more for one day. For more days, you need to consider more then just calories in the thing. Which where pasta like food or canned food comes into play - people carry it because they want real food to actually fills stomach and comfort of it, not because they would worry about being unable to fill calories. Besides, you can hike on caloric deficit. Carrying 1.5kg of butter as primary source of food for 5 days hike sounds like one of those things that gets hikes cancelled second day and someone needing help to get back.

ghaff 8y ago

Most people doing weekend trips don't suddenly abandon their day to day eating habits and start eating jars of peanut butter and mayonnaise. ADDED: That wasn't intended as snark but my observation is that most people on weekend dayhike trips or even multi-day backpacks maintain fairly conventional eating habits even if they're not energy/weight optimal. I certainly do.

jdminhbg 8y ago

The calories aren't the issue; as far as I know butter and margarine have about the same amount per serving. Margarine was preferred because it was thought that the saturated fat in butter was going to clog your arteries and kill you.

atomical 8y ago
Saturated fat is bad for health. This is established science and your comment is science denial. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/fat/art-20045550 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
- phonypc 8y ago
  It's not nearly that simple. And the person you're responding to didn't even actually deny that saturated fat is unhealthy, why jump on them like that? Needlessly inflammatory.
  - atomical 8y ago
    You're being disingenuous. Please stop. > Margarine was preferred because it was thought that the saturated fat in butter was going to clog your arteries and kill you.
    - tomhoward 8y ago
      You do seem unreasonable and unnecessarily combative in this subthread. I've had to read over it several times to figure out how your comments are appropriate replies, and I’m not seeing it. That commenter wasn't mounting an argument for a position on whether or not "saturated fat in butter was going to clog your arteries and kill you" - just explaining the thinking behind those who preferred margarine. But it's also not "established science" that "saturated fat is bad for health". If it were that simple, any food containing saturated fat would never appear in the "healthy in low-moderate quantities" section of a mainstream recommended diet chart. Clearly that's not the case, and clearly many experts have different things to say about this topic. So, please stop throwing around accusations of "science denial", when any person who engages seriously with this topic knows that it is still a matter of ongoing research and discussion.
      - atomical 8y ago
        You are incorrect and denying science as well. Trump uses the same logic to deny climate change. He says many experts disagree. Your opinion is not equal to fact. I'm sorry. Please stop being a science denier.
      - atomical 8y ago
        Trump uses the same logic to deny climate change.
        tomhoward 8y ago
        This is an appallingly bad-faith style of discussion. You must know full well this terminology is used for its evocative link to holocaust denial. Not that it should make a difference to how you conduct yourself, but I’ve had cause to research this topic in order to get myself through serious health issues. So I know what it looks like when people are or aren’t engaging with this topic with honesty. It’s a deeply important topic that deserves better than crap like this, particularly from a longtime user of this site.
- avinium 8y ago
  You should be careful about making blanket statements like "established science" and "science denial". It makes you come off as an extremist, and in fact, the page you linked makes no such claims and is far more moderate. It talks only about potentially harmful dietary fats. > Research about the possible harms and benefits of dietary fat is always evolving. Current evidence suggests that the smart play is to focus on choosing healthier fats and avoiding the less healthy ones. Researchers (particularly those in the field of nutrition) have got things completely wrong before. An important part of being a good scientist is knowing the limits of the current body of research.
  - atomical 8y ago
    Yeah, it's only what 99% of doctors in the US would recommend but I'm the extremist...

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago

Makes as much sense as zero-calorie sports drinks. Food shaming has trained people to want things that are of no use to them.

watwut 8y ago

That is not true even on difficult hikes. You need more calories then normal, but it is not like you would suddenly had to eat tripple portion of everything else you die. Also, it is not like extreme cardio or weight lifting. You can go on for hours without eating. It won't feel great, but won't be big issue either. Besides, for long hikes and climbs, people minimize weight. Bin of peanut butter to go through in two days sound excesive.

ejolto 8y ago
Bringing butter, peanut butter or mayonnaise on a hike is not about eating more but about carrying less. 300g of butter for example is about 2150 calories, enough food for a day for a small person. Compare that to pasta and you would need to carry more than 1.6 kg for the same amount of calories. If you're going on a five day hike you're carrying 8 kg of pasta vs only 1.5 kg of butter. That said I only bring butter and mayonnaise on week long hikes, for weekends or day trips I don't bother.
- watwut 8y ago
  Pasta sounds like highly theoretical food for a hike. I have yet to see anyone who would carry pasta or similar food for a hike as main source of calories. Sounds impractical and waste of space. Or raw butter which would melt in the heat. Also, eating 300g of butter as energy source for whole day sounds like one of those things that makes your stomach go real bad. Quick energy in sugary food weights a little and comes in gazimilion sources. Proteins bars or dry meant are easy to get, weight a little and have enough calories. Both are slow calories. But besides, already traditional bread and ham or sausage or bacon or whatever are good enough for day hike. Or any kind of already cooked meat that can survive a day. You do not need more for one day. For more days, you need to consider more then just calories in the thing. Which where pasta like food or canned food comes into play - people carry it because they want real food to actually fills stomach and comfort of it, not because they would worry about being unable to fill calories. Besides, you can hike on caloric deficit. Carrying 1.5kg of butter as primary source of food for 5 days hike sounds like one of those things that gets hikes cancelled second day and someone needing help to get back.