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Developer Income Report #5 (Gave up a day job)

149 points by kreci 16y ago

kreci 16y ago
As usual comments are welcome and very desired!
- T-zex 16y ago
  Why can't you have payed apps?
  - kreci 16y ago
    Google policy do not accept developers from Poland (and some other countries) to post paid applications on Android Market. I am allowed to post only free apps...
    - spot 16y ago
      why not just make a deal with someone in USA to post your Apps for you?
      - kayoone 16y ago
        it seems to work out with advertising, as it is for more and more app developers because you just get so much more installs without a pricetag on it. Most devs dont have any marketing muscle, so free apps with advertising often is a good approach.
        russell_h 16y ago
        Do you do any marketing/promotion at all, or just stick your Apps up on the Market?
        kayoone 16y ago
        You do the best you can with the resources you have to promote your app, even if its free, since that cant hurt. Even with free apps you still need a good app and luck, its not that any free app will generate tons of ad revenue.
      - alnayyir 16y ago
        Simplicity and risk exposure. He's clearly doing quite alright with ad-driven applications. I doubt he'd get higher profit with paid apps.
        shrikant 16y ago
        Nice answer, and makes sense, but was that last line really necessary? Parent sounds like genuine curiosity and not condescension, and when in doubt, be charitable! :-)
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        alnayyir 16y ago
        Feedback executed.
    - ninifat 16y ago
      Does that apply to most countries, or just Poland (and maybe few other countries)?
      - T-zex 16y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market#Priced_applications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market#Priced_applicati...
  - todosputos 16y ago
    coz i actually have a life
mgkimsal 16y ago
Congrats. Glad this is working out for you and that the income is better than previous pay. I first saw $2k and was a bit disappointed, but didn't realize you were in Poland, and that this was double your earlier money. Keep up the good work! Plug: This is the sort of thing we'd like to see more of at the next indieconf! :)
bemmu 16y ago
Thanks Kreci, I've been refreshing your site in anticipation of this post =)
ohashi 16y ago
Nice to see you doing well. I am curious about the Freelancer income, does that mean you referred yourself and are taking commissions on your own stuff?
- kreci 16y ago
  Nope. I can commission when someone I have refereed pay commissions to freelancer portal.
axod 16y ago
Nice to see some success with advertising revenue. It always seems like HN and several other places are heavily skewed towards charging end users directly. But that's only one option open (And IMHO, it's not quite as scalable and fun as advertising income). If you look at what business models 'power' the web, it's still majority earning their revenue through advertising. Well done :)
- nhangen 16y ago
  Not quite as scalable as premium? I'd argue that premium is far more scalable than free. Open? Maybe not, but scalable for sure. As for fun, money is money. I'll take it in any form.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - axod 16y ago
    The number of people who want to pay directly for something is far smaller than the number of people willing to view an advert. With advertising, you get more visitors, you get more revenue. And the number of visitors available is billions. So with advertising, you can get 10x the traffic, and not need any more resources. It's truly scalable. With a 'paid for' offering, you're more likely to need to scale up customer support, handling charge backs payment issues refunds etc etc. My comment about 'fun' was more about the overhead and pain required in managing premium payments. Cancelations, mess ups, people wanting refunds, credit card issues, etc. That's not fun (IMHO). I've always found making money from advertising ridiculously easy compared to trying to charge people.
- krakensden 16y ago
  It's probably worth noting that because he's in Poland, he doesn't have a choice.
alnayyir 16y ago
Thanks for sharing this, it's extremely rare you see people willing to share the nitty-gritty of their efforts in going independent as a programmer. Cheers and good fortune!
trotsky 16y ago
Thanks for a new update kreci - I love your attitude and always look forward to your blog. One question I have I haven't seen answered. Most would agree that some apps are more ad friendly mediums than others. Since you're targeting ad income and making a variety of applications, are you picking application types or making design choices based on their ad potential? Any thoughts to share along those lines about designing for ad revenue?
iepaul 16y ago
Great to see some one successfully generating income from advertising.
ruslan 16y ago
Did you pay your taxes already ? I wonder what would be your after-tax income ? Again, $2.5k is still very low even for Eastern Europe. From my own experience, I strongly recommend NOT to quit your day job. Try to run it at least for a year, then you will make a way better decision.
- ido 16y ago
  Did you pay your taxes already ? I wonder what would be your after-tax income ? Again, $2.5k is still very low even for Eastern Europe. I don't know which Eastern Europe you live in - but $2,500 per month (even if he ends up paying 50% taxes on it) is considerably higher than average income in Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or Hungary. And if we are talking about non-EU member like Ukraine, Russia, Belarus or Moldova $2,500/month puts you firmly into the ranks of the higher class (except maybe in Moscow).
- prs 16y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita_personal_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita... speaks a different language even if you factor in taxes. I am always a fan of a safety net but in the case of kreci the upside of continuing his path surely beats dedicating his resources to a full-time day job.
- aquarin 16y ago
  It is not low. My salary as expert in financial institution is waaay below this.
- kreci 16y ago
  It is my total income. I need to pay taxes from it. But when I get full time job I need to pay similar taxes so it is still over 2x more that I would make on day job.
- jasiek 16y ago
  After-tax would be around $2k (the effective tax rate for the self employed is 19%). You can live very comfortably on this in Poland.
tocomment 16y ago
What are his android apps? (I didn't notice them listed on his blog but I'm operating from a first generation iPhone so I do miss a lot. )
- chc 16y ago
  He mentioned them in his last income report: http://www.kreci.net/reports/android-developer-income-report/ http://www.kreci.net/reports/android-developer-income-report...

149 points by kreci 16y ago

kreci 16y ago

As usual comments are welcome and very desired!

T-zex 16y ago
Why can't you have payed apps?
- kreci 16y ago
  Google policy do not accept developers from Poland (and some other countries) to post paid applications on Android Market. I am allowed to post only free apps...
  - spot 16y ago
    why not just make a deal with someone in USA to post your Apps for you?
    - kayoone 16y ago
      it seems to work out with advertising, as it is for more and more app developers because you just get so much more installs without a pricetag on it. Most devs dont have any marketing muscle, so free apps with advertising often is a good approach.
      - russell_h 16y ago
        Do you do any marketing/promotion at all, or just stick your Apps up on the Market?
        kayoone 16y ago
        You do the best you can with the resources you have to promote your app, even if its free, since that cant hurt. Even with free apps you still need a good app and luck, its not that any free app will generate tons of ad revenue.
    - alnayyir 16y ago
      Simplicity and risk exposure. He's clearly doing quite alright with ad-driven applications. I doubt he'd get higher profit with paid apps.
      - shrikant 16y ago
        Nice answer, and makes sense, but was that last line really necessary? Parent sounds like genuine curiosity and not condescension, and when in doubt, be charitable! :-)
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        alnayyir 16y ago
        Feedback executed.
  - ninifat 16y ago
    Does that apply to most countries, or just Poland (and maybe few other countries)?
    - T-zex 16y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market#Priced_applications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market#Priced_applicati...
- todosputos 16y ago
  coz i actually have a life

mgkimsal 16y ago

Congrats. Glad this is working out for you and that the income is better than previous pay. I first saw $2k and was a bit disappointed, but didn't realize you were in Poland, and that this was double your earlier money. Keep up the good work! Plug: This is the sort of thing we'd like to see more of at the next indieconf! :)

bemmu 16y ago

Thanks Kreci, I've been refreshing your site in anticipation of this post =)

ohashi 16y ago

Nice to see you doing well. I am curious about the Freelancer income, does that mean you referred yourself and are taking commissions on your own stuff?

kreci 16y ago
Nope. I can commission when someone I have refereed pay commissions to freelancer portal.

axod 16y ago

Nice to see some success with advertising revenue. It always seems like HN and several other places are heavily skewed towards charging end users directly. But that's only one option open (And IMHO, it's not quite as scalable and fun as advertising income). If you look at what business models 'power' the web, it's still majority earning their revenue through advertising. Well done :)

nhangen 16y ago
Not quite as scalable as premium? I'd argue that premium is far more scalable than free. Open? Maybe not, but scalable for sure. As for fun, money is money. I'll take it in any form.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- axod 16y ago
  The number of people who want to pay directly for something is far smaller than the number of people willing to view an advert. With advertising, you get more visitors, you get more revenue. And the number of visitors available is billions. So with advertising, you can get 10x the traffic, and not need any more resources. It's truly scalable. With a 'paid for' offering, you're more likely to need to scale up customer support, handling charge backs payment issues refunds etc etc. My comment about 'fun' was more about the overhead and pain required in managing premium payments. Cancelations, mess ups, people wanting refunds, credit card issues, etc. That's not fun (IMHO). I've always found making money from advertising ridiculously easy compared to trying to charge people.
krakensden 16y ago
It's probably worth noting that because he's in Poland, he doesn't have a choice.

alnayyir 16y ago

Thanks for sharing this, it's extremely rare you see people willing to share the nitty-gritty of their efforts in going independent as a programmer. Cheers and good fortune!

trotsky 16y ago

Thanks for a new update kreci - I love your attitude and always look forward to your blog. One question I have I haven't seen answered. Most would agree that some apps are more ad friendly mediums than others. Since you're targeting ad income and making a variety of applications, are you picking application types or making design choices based on their ad potential? Any thoughts to share along those lines about designing for ad revenue?

iepaul 16y ago

Great to see some one successfully generating income from advertising.

ruslan 16y ago

Did you pay your taxes already ? I wonder what would be your after-tax income ? Again, $2.5k is still very low even for Eastern Europe. From my own experience, I strongly recommend NOT to quit your day job. Try to run it at least for a year, then you will make a way better decision.

ido 16y ago
Did you pay your taxes already ? I wonder what would be your after-tax income ? Again, $2.5k is still very low even for Eastern Europe. I don't know which Eastern Europe you live in - but $2,500 per month (even if he ends up paying 50% taxes on it) is considerably higher than average income in Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or Hungary. And if we are talking about non-EU member like Ukraine, Russia, Belarus or Moldova $2,500/month puts you firmly into the ranks of the higher class (except maybe in Moscow).
prs 16y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita_personal_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita... speaks a different language even if you factor in taxes. I am always a fan of a safety net but in the case of kreci the upside of continuing his path surely beats dedicating his resources to a full-time day job.
aquarin 16y ago
It is not low. My salary as expert in financial institution is waaay below this.
kreci 16y ago
It is my total income. I need to pay taxes from it. But when I get full time job I need to pay similar taxes so it is still over 2x more that I would make on day job.
jasiek 16y ago
After-tax would be around $2k (the effective tax rate for the self employed is 19%). You can live very comfortably on this in Poland.

tocomment 16y ago

What are his android apps? (I didn't notice them listed on his blog but I'm operating from a first generation iPhone so I do miss a lot. )

chc 16y ago
He mentioned them in his last income report: http://www.kreci.net/reports/android-developer-income-report/ http://www.kreci.net/reports/android-developer-income-report...