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My understanding is that drivers absolutely do control the when and the where, as they choose their work days and hours freely and accept or refuse riders indiv

My understanding is that drivers absolutely do control the when and the where, as they choose their work days and hours freely and accept or refuse riders individually after knowing the pickup location. What are the counterarguments?

toomuchtodo 8y ago
> This May, California decided to adopt an employment test, also used by Illinois and New Jersey, that could bring a safety net to gig workers. Called the ABC test, it presents three pieces of criteria that a company must show in order to designate one of their workers as an independent contractor: (1) the worker must be “free from control” of the larger company, (2) the worker must provide a service that is not part of the company’s main business, and (3) the work must be a professional who has regularly offered their services to other companies. > By that definition, virtually no Uber drivers would be considered independent contractors, unless the company can argue that transportation is not its main business. If more states adopt this standard, “that may be the only thing that can get around an ABC test,” attorney Todd Lebowitz told CNN in May. “If a ride-hailing service is a technology company, then they may still be able to meet that test. But it's going to be scrutinized a lot more closely now.” https://theoutline.com/post/5469/uber-employees-abc-test-insurance?zd=1&zi=3n5c5jiz https://theoutline.com/post/5469/uber-employees-abc-test-ins... https://www.hrdefenseblog.com/2018/05/say-goodbye-to-independent-contractors-the-new-abc-test-of-employee-status/ https://www.hrdefenseblog.com/2018/05/say-goodbye-to-indepen... A New York appeals board also found Uber drivers to be employees for purposes of collecting unemployment insurance. http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1101912670699&ca=28ed83a7-d68d-4c24-872d-f0adebfec4f5 http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=11019126706...
- SilasX 8y ago
  You're answering the question, "what is the legal case for drivers being employees rather than contractors?" The parent was specifically challenging your claim that drivers don't control the where or the when, which that doesn't address. I agree that there are good points in favor of the case that they're employees, but you're overstating it when you say drivers "don't control the where or when".
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    My statement ("you don't get to set the price, the when, the where, or the how") was shorthand for "the worker must be “free from control” of the larger company". Apologies I wasn't more clear initially; editing my comment to bring it in line with what the statute says would remove context, so I just leave it as-is, even though I didn't comprehensively express the idea initially (which was my mistake).
    - SilasX 8y ago
      So you favor comments that sound catchy at the expense of being true?
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        I'm sorry that's how you interpreted the intent of the comment.
        SilasX 8y ago
        So you didn't favor that phrasing because it sounded more catchy, and you weren't aware that it was false?
cannonedhamster 8y ago
Do they get to set their price for the transaction, make a counter offer? Can they individually amend the work contact? They can only be open to accepting clients they cannot pick which clients to make a bid for like any independent contractor.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

> This May, California decided to adopt an employment test, also used by Illinois and New Jersey, that could bring a safety net to gig workers. Called the ABC test, it presents three pieces of criteria that a company must show in order to designate one of their workers as an independent contractor: (1) the worker must be “free from control” of the larger company, (2) the worker must provide a service that is not part of the company’s main business, and (3) the work must be a professional who has regularly offered their services to other companies. > By that definition, virtually no Uber drivers would be considered independent contractors, unless the company can argue that transportation is not its main business. If more states adopt this standard, “that may be the only thing that can get around an ABC test,” attorney Todd Lebowitz told CNN in May. “If a ride-hailing service is a technology company, then they may still be able to meet that test. But it's going to be scrutinized a lot more closely now.” https://theoutline.com/post/5469/uber-employees-abc-test-insurance?zd=1&zi=3n5c5jiz https://theoutline.com/post/5469/uber-employees-abc-test-ins... https://www.hrdefenseblog.com/2018/05/say-goodbye-to-independent-contractors-the-new-abc-test-of-employee-status/ https://www.hrdefenseblog.com/2018/05/say-goodbye-to-indepen... A New York appeals board also found Uber drivers to be employees for purposes of collecting unemployment insurance. http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1101912670699&ca=28ed83a7-d68d-4c24-872d-f0adebfec4f5 http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=11019126706...

SilasX 8y ago
You're answering the question, "what is the legal case for drivers being employees rather than contractors?" The parent was specifically challenging your claim that drivers don't control the where or the when, which that doesn't address. I agree that there are good points in favor of the case that they're employees, but you're overstating it when you say drivers "don't control the where or when".
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  My statement ("you don't get to set the price, the when, the where, or the how") was shorthand for "the worker must be “free from control” of the larger company". Apologies I wasn't more clear initially; editing my comment to bring it in line with what the statute says would remove context, so I just leave it as-is, even though I didn't comprehensively express the idea initially (which was my mistake).
  - SilasX 8y ago
    So you favor comments that sound catchy at the expense of being true?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      I'm sorry that's how you interpreted the intent of the comment.
      - SilasX 8y ago
        So you didn't favor that phrasing because it sounded more catchy, and you weren't aware that it was false?

cannonedhamster 8y ago

Do they get to set their price for the transaction, make a counter offer? Can they individually amend the work contact? They can only be open to accepting clients they cannot pick which clients to make a bid for like any independent contractor.