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US Uber drivers plan 12-hour shutdown over pay and conditions
- gourou 8y agoThis would probably have a huge impact if Uber had already done its IPO.
- ProAm 8y agoGood luck with that. One of the key benefits of the gig economy is you're not employees and easily replaceable.
- duiker101 8y agoThe strength is in the numbers, if everyone stopped working it will spell trouble for Uber(good luck finding all new drivers right away) and bring media attention to the driver's situation.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- inetknght 8y agoThat is not a benefit.
- CaptainZapp 8y agoOne of the key benefits of the gig economy is you're not employees That's according to the gig economy and that's what the gig economy frantically tries to communicate as the gospel truth. Legally, and depending on the jurisdiction, this may not be the case. EDIT :That's the first time I comment on a downvote: But would whoever obviously doesn't like my opinion point out what's factually wrong with my statement?
- pjc50 8y agoNo idea. It's now true in the UK, for example: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/19/uber-loses-appeal-over-driver-employment-rights https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/19/uber-lose...
- CaptainZapp 8y agoI would also be wondering about Switzerland, which has some of the most liberal employment laws in Europe. Even though, an employer can't really do as she pleases. Some of the statutes are changeable, some are not. And some are only changeable to the advantage of the employee. For example: Minimum annual vacation is 4 weeks, which can be changed to 5 weeks, but not shortened to less than 4 weeks. An American company (with a local subsidiary) arguing that you're not an employee, even though it controls all aspects of your work, and any dispute should be arbitrated in Dellaware would be laughed straight of court.
- greenyoda 8y agoThey're not so easily replaceable. To drive for Uber, you need to own a vehicle that meets Uber's standards, have the proper driver's license and insurance, and pass a background check. It's much harder to find a person with those qualifications than it is to find someone who can work in in the fast food or retail industries.
- duiker101 8y agoGood for them. Everyone I know loves to praise Uber and bash on taxis. while some of the criticism toward taxis is definitely founded, Uber & co. are definitely exploiting their drivers. I really hope that they can get what they want.
- kolbe 8y agoUber loses billions of dollars a year subsidizing drivers in the hopes that autonomous vehicles or some powerful network effect will save their business. What more do drivers want? Even if Uber gave all of their equity to their drivers, that would be a one time payment of an illiquid security worth $25,000.
- dfxm12 8y agoWhat more do drivers want? Is this a rhetorical question? The drivers' demands are clearly listed in the article: The drivers involved in the protests have four demands: 1. higher wages 2. clearer policies on wages, tips, how fares are shared and disciplinary action 3. employee benefits such as health care, disability payments and holiday pay 4. recognition and representation for drivers in Uber's management structure
- kolbe 8y agoAnd I clearly laid out what is wrong with 1 & 3. 1. Uber loses billions a year already, and they should lose more? 3. Health care? You kidding me? That's $300+ a month in the US, which would be a $15 billion/year expense for Uber. Demands need to be structured in reality.
- maxxxxx 8y agoMaybe Uber’s business model should be structured in reality instead of basing it on large cash inflows plus underpaid workers who get no benefits?
- duiker101 8y agoIt's a negotiation. You want a 100k job? You say you want a rate of 150k and the company will negotiate. It would be foolish to not assume this and it would be even more foolish to assume that Uber will just spontaneously give more to the drivers instead of their executives.
- meddlepal 8y agoGood news for Lyft I guess.
- chrisseaton 8y agoThis will raise pay... for the drivers who don't strike and so are working when the inevitable surge pricing turns on.
- matt4077 8y agoI wouldn’t actually make much sense to earn even, say, 10x as much as normal for 12h, if by doing so you lower your chance of even marginal (but lasting) improvements in working conditions. It would also show how selfishness hurts you in the long term, and why unions are necessary to establish balance of power in negotiations.
- himynameisdom 8y agoI think we're on the same page in our thought process. The opportunity cost of this strike is unclear to those who choose to take part. I'm not hopeful this will bring the change these drivers are seeking.
- A2017U1 8y agoUber drivers are unaware of the "opportunity cost”? Really? The main factor in their pay is something I'd say you should give them credit for being aware of. Utterly absurd assumption, they know exactly the cost and better than anyone else. Taxis still exist, surge pricing really will struggle above that. Most uber rides aren't of necessity, many studies have shown they replace public transport.
- himynameisdom 8y agoThe main basis of opportunity cost is knowing both outcomes of each decision and choosing the outcome that makes the most sense based on resource scarcity (ability to both strike and work at the same time in this case). While they may very well know how much money they'll lose by not working those 12 hours, they certainly don't know the true cost and gain of the same decision, thus making the opportunity cost unclear. That's really the basis of my comment. It's not an assumption, it's quite black and white.
- 8y ago
- himynameisdom 8y agoHailing back to microeconomics 101, won't this cause a sharp decrease in supply, causing an increase in price and higher wages for those who find it economically-sensible to continue providing service in these cities until S&D equilibrium is met again?
- jquery 8y agoYes. This will cause nothing but a temporary surge.
- jgust 8y agoThe "rats" will come, be assured.
- himynameisdom 8y agoTo be clear, are the "rats" those who believe it to be economically-sensible to continue working or those who choose to follow through with the strike?
- reallydontask 8y agoI'd guess those who prefer short term gain over medium term loss, but I agree with your, passive aggressive?, point of using the term "rats" to label anybody.
- himynameisdom 8y agoI appreciate the note, but please don't infer passive-aggressiveness when all I was seeking was clarity.
- reallydontask 8y agoI was only asking, hence the question mark. Good to know there was a genuine quest for knowledge.
- jquery 8y agoHas an “Uber strike” ever caused anything except a temporary surge price? Suppose there are a million drivers and this convinces 50,000 not to drive no matter how high the surge gets... I wonder if there’s even 50,000 drivers who would resist a 2x surge.
- ISL 8y agoEspecially with Lyft as an alternative for both workers and customers, the gig workers have more-than-usual power in this context. If drivers are willing to accept Lyft's regular wages for a day, and refuse the temptation of surge pricing on Uber, price-sensitive consumers will see surge pricing on Uber and turn on the Lyft app. If the goal is to threaten Uber's brand/customer-loyalty, this play might work?
- jquery 8y agoIf they all drive for Lyft, they won’t get Lyft’s regular wages for a day, supply and demand dictates there won’t be enough demand and they’ll get lower wages.
- Tyrek 8y agoIf you assume rideshare demand remains consistent and that riders just switch over to Lyft (which doesn't seem entirely unreasonable), then presumably the overall supply/demand curve remains fairly consistent. Obviously some fuzzing around the edges will remain, but otherwise the broader conclusion holds?
- ISL 8y agoTrue, unless enough Uber customers jump ship to Lyft to support Lyft's demand.
- AimForTheBushes 8y agoNot necessarily. I use both apps. I'm sure a lot of other people do too. More people would use Lyft if it's the cheaper option (and not surging like Uber would be in this scenario).
- DINKDINK 8y ago>supply and demand dictates there won’t be enough demand and they’ll get lower wages. Reductive. Your model assumes demand for Lyft remains constant while supply increases. This ignores the fact that supply is dropping at Uber, which causes a price increase, which causes demand to shift else where...to Lyft which increases demand.
- johnwheeler 8y agoUber has a brilliant albeit sad business model. In accounting terms, they have no fleet maintenance or deprecation charges. Instead, that’s completely offloaded onto the employee, which even further drags down their pay over time, The business model plays off the boiling a frog in water model. Where if you make incremental changes over a long period (in this case car wear and tear), the subject is less likely to notice. I don’t hear anybody talking about that.
- maxxxxx 8y agoThat’s pretty much the model of the gig economy. It used to be that in exchange for loyalty companies would provide pension, health care and other benefits. Pensions are already on the way out. Gig economy are slowly getting rid of all other benefits. And people are getting used to it. A lot of young workers know nothing about pensions and soon they will also not know about other benefits employers would provide in the past.
- thegabez 8y agoHere's a solution. Create a ride sharing platform that lets the drivers actually be business owners. An Uber clone that would allow drivers bid on the price of the ride and the "business" would take a small cut. The value Uber created was getting people to buy into letting strangers (other than taxies) drive them around and convincing people who otherwise wouldn't be taxi drivers to become ones. So now that those two barriers have been broken down why not take advantage of it? Would be easy to recruit the drivers and why wouldn't they join such a network?
- prepend 8y agoIsn’t this how Austin RideShare works? I’m surprised there aren’t more co-ops using this kind of tech. I understand why the Facebook clones don’t work because of the lack of economy of scale, but since ridesharing is really kind of local, it should occur more. I suspect that the regulatory environment is tough for co-ops to fight because they don’t have the deep pockets to fight city hall when taxis complain.
- thegabez 8y agoI'm not surprised, local ride shares have been around forever. The reason they are not more popular is because the user experience is very bad.
- pjc50 8y agoIsn't that what Gett is?
- thegabez 8y agoGett leverages only existing black cab drivers, in Europe at least. An average Uber driver could not become a Gett driver.
- Tijdreiziger 8y ago> Gett leverages only existing black cab drivers, in Europe at least. This is also the case for Uber in various European countries.
- astura 8y agohttps://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18511066/stop-shop-workers-union-strike-contract https://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18511066/stop-shop-workers-uni... This article is about a recent supermarket employee strike but it also makes the argument that there's a larger labor movement that's sweeping across America that started last year. Importantly the general public is overwhelmingly supportive of the labor unrest. This Uber shutdown furthers that argument. So expect to hear about more worker stoppages, protests, walkouts, and strikes in the near future. >The [positive response from the public for striking supermarket employees] echoes the support for public school teachers who launched major strikes across the country in 2018 to protest low pay. It also suggests the labor unrest, which swept across the US last year, is nowhere close to dying down >Within 24 hours, the stoppage became the largest private sector strike in at least three years, showing that last year’s spike in work stoppages across the country was not an isolated phenomenon. >A record number of US workers went on strike or stopped working in 2018 because of labor disputes with employers, according to data released in February by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. A total of 485,000 employees were involved in major work stoppages last year — the highest number since 1986.
- will_brown 8y agoThere is no reason for this not to happen. US corporations have record revenues/profits, US markets have never been at higher highs...yet the gap between executive pay and common employee has never been greater, social mobility has never been lower, wages have been stagnant for workers for 30 years. Unfortunately strikes are to little to late...look toward google who fired organizers of the Google worker walkout, the powers that be have to much power, don’t give a shit about legal rights/laws, and know they could replace anyone with unpaid interns if needed because well that’s the state of desperation already.
- dfxm12 8y agoknow they could replace anyone with unpaid interns if needed because well that’s the state of desperation already. Is this true, given how low unemployment is? (With respect to Google engineers being in a different situation from supermarket workers, teachers, uber drivers, etc.) I would think workers have more power now than ever in recent memory given low unemployment and the current administration's aversion to immigration. Where are these replacement workers coming from? I disagree that unpaid interns is tenable solution.