6 ms·

This is definitely a problem but in practice it's not as dire as this article makes it sound. So many of the essential pieces have been factored out into the su

This is definitely a problem but in practice it's not as dire as this article makes it sound. So many of the essential pieces have been factored out into the support libraries and independently upgradable components that Android devices actually get more regular updates in some respects than iOS devices do. For example, I have to update my entire iPhone OS to get an updated web browser or photo library or keyboard. Google can update all of those every day without a reboot. As an iOS developer I can't use new OS features until all my users have upgraded. As long as what I need is in the support library I can adopt the latest and greatest for Android right away.

setpatchaddress 8y ago
Downside of updating support libraries independently is that it balloons the QA matrix and makes integration bugs inevitable. The iOS approach means the entire OS is properly tested as an entire entity.
- cageface 8y ago
  There are definitely some very big upsides to being able to move your entire user base to a new major OS version in a year. Apple benefits a lot from this and Google and the vendors and carriers need to somehow get their heads together and deal with this because it is a serious issue. I just wanted to point out that there are some good things about a more decoupled model too.
- moron4hire 8y ago
  I would think two of the richest companies in the world could figure out how to manage that sort of complexity. Maybe they need to poach a few people from Microsoft to learn how it's done.
  - avtar 8y ago
    > Maybe they need to poach a few people from Microsoft to learn how it's done. It seems Microsoft needs some help in this department as well https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4500988/windows-update-blocked-because-of-drive-reassignment https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4500988/windows-upd...
    - oblio 8y ago
      So you're telling me an OS with 1.2+ billion users has bugs? I'm shocked! :) On a more serious note, Microsoft is (was?) famous for its QA processes. They have (had?) huge computer farms, tens of thousands of machine to be able to QA with every strange configuration out there. Windows, despite the hate it gets, is one of the most QAd pieces of software out there. And considering the shoddy architecture it has to support for backwards compatibility (CP/M, MS-DOS, Win32), it works amazingly well.
      - tonyjstark 8y ago
        Yea, I always wondered about the (frankly amazing) backwards compatibility. Windows could probably be a much better system if they just get rid of support for these old systems. Same for these super old MS-Word formats. Doesn't need to be as drastic as Apple does it, though.
        kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
        The super old MS Word formats are just a memory dump of internal data structures. The Modern DOCX just converts XML into that same representation along with whatever new features have been added. There is little reason to remove the old format when it is still very much an integral part of Word internals.
      - avtar 8y ago
        My impression was that they have changed the way potential releases are tested internally https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_1... The last update was blocked since files were being deleted in users' Document directories and now this external drive issue. Both cases involve some fairly common configurations.
whalabi 8y ago
Hi, author here You're right about platform features used within apps, many (most? all?) are made available to developers with the support libraries. However, users will get none of the following until they get Pie (for example) * ML adaptive battery * App actions (ML predictive app shortcuts) * Digital well-being dashboard and limits * A lot more, as shown on this page (there's a lot of smaller items in the collapsible categories at the bottom): https://www.android.com/versions/pie-9-0/ https://www.android.com/versions/pie-9-0/ Each update has a heap of interface improvements, and users miss out on these
- johnchristopher 8y ago
  > * ML adaptive battery > > * App actions (ML predictive app shortcuts) > > * Digital well-being dashboard and limits These sounds like gimmicks to me (ML buzzwords). I'd welcome an update that would sort alphabetically the apps I want to share content with for instance. No AI needed for that.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    Adaptive battery works extremely well. The ML-side might be a slight in-vogue thing, but as long as it works I don't really care how it works (and it does work). I have no opinion on App Actions/Digital Web-Being.
  - apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
    > No AI needed for that. These days, I'm beginning to wonder if it's even possible for a company to alphabetize without ML.
    - lmkg 8y ago
      Languages sometimes have different sort order, even when they use the same script. So I could see using ML to detect the language, in order to select the proper sort order.
      - sdenton4 8y ago
ksec 8y ago
>As an iOS developer I can't use new OS features until all my users have upgraded. As long as what I need is in the support library I can adopt the latest and greatest for Android right away. I don't know about the rate and speed of support library from the Top 5 Android manufacturers, which is Samsung, Huawei, BBKs, Xiaomi. I know they do get some regular update, but on all devices? And do those user actually update it? iOS Users Update are on a much faster cycle. iOS 12 is on 70% of compatible iOS devices within 3 months of release. iOS 11+ on 95% of all compatible iOS devices. That is pretty damn crazy if you ask me Having OS that is only 2 years old on nearly all devices.
- farmerbb 8y ago
  The support library is something that is statically compiled inside of Android apps. That's the reason why it exists - to circumvent the usual Android OS update process to bring new APIs to developers faster.
  - ksec 8y ago
    ARH, sorry I have close to zero experience on Android Development. Thank You for pointing out.
medius 8y ago
To add to this, I have a 6 year old iPad. There are no issues with it except the operating system itself. Hulu won't install since it needs iOS 11 for some reason. iOS won't update to 11 because it's too old. Netflix works and updates just fine. The iPad is in perfect condition with no hardware issues. It's the software that will make it an ewaste soon. My Android phone updates all the apps (even many OS services) without any problem.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Have you ever downloaded Hulu with your account? If so, it should let you download the “last compatible version”. It worked a few months ago for me on my old first gen iPad. If you haven’t downloaded it before, you can download it with an older version of iTunes or a newer device if you have one and then it will let you download on your old device.

setpatchaddress 8y ago

Downside of updating support libraries independently is that it balloons the QA matrix and makes integration bugs inevitable. The iOS approach means the entire OS is properly tested as an entire entity.

cageface 8y ago
There are definitely some very big upsides to being able to move your entire user base to a new major OS version in a year. Apple benefits a lot from this and Google and the vendors and carriers need to somehow get their heads together and deal with this because it is a serious issue. I just wanted to point out that there are some good things about a more decoupled model too.
moron4hire 8y ago
I would think two of the richest companies in the world could figure out how to manage that sort of complexity. Maybe they need to poach a few people from Microsoft to learn how it's done.
- avtar 8y ago
  > Maybe they need to poach a few people from Microsoft to learn how it's done. It seems Microsoft needs some help in this department as well https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4500988/windows-update-blocked-because-of-drive-reassignment https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4500988/windows-upd...
  - oblio 8y ago
    So you're telling me an OS with 1.2+ billion users has bugs? I'm shocked! :) On a more serious note, Microsoft is (was?) famous for its QA processes. They have (had?) huge computer farms, tens of thousands of machine to be able to QA with every strange configuration out there. Windows, despite the hate it gets, is one of the most QAd pieces of software out there. And considering the shoddy architecture it has to support for backwards compatibility (CP/M, MS-DOS, Win32), it works amazingly well.
    - tonyjstark 8y ago
      Yea, I always wondered about the (frankly amazing) backwards compatibility. Windows could probably be a much better system if they just get rid of support for these old systems. Same for these super old MS-Word formats. Doesn't need to be as drastic as Apple does it, though.
      - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
        The super old MS Word formats are just a memory dump of internal data structures. The Modern DOCX just converts XML into that same representation along with whatever new features have been added. There is little reason to remove the old format when it is still very much an integral part of Word internals.
    - avtar 8y ago
      My impression was that they have changed the way potential releases are tested internally https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_1... The last update was blocked since files were being deleted in users' Document directories and now this external drive issue. Both cases involve some fairly common configurations.

whalabi 8y ago

Hi, author here You're right about platform features used within apps, many (most? all?) are made available to developers with the support libraries. However, users will get none of the following until they get Pie (for example) * ML adaptive battery * App actions (ML predictive app shortcuts) * Digital well-being dashboard and limits * A lot more, as shown on this page (there's a lot of smaller items in the collapsible categories at the bottom): https://www.android.com/versions/pie-9-0/ https://www.android.com/versions/pie-9-0/ Each update has a heap of interface improvements, and users miss out on these

johnchristopher 8y ago
> * ML adaptive battery > > * App actions (ML predictive app shortcuts) > > * Digital well-being dashboard and limits These sounds like gimmicks to me (ML buzzwords). I'd welcome an update that would sort alphabetically the apps I want to share content with for instance. No AI needed for that.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  Adaptive battery works extremely well. The ML-side might be a slight in-vogue thing, but as long as it works I don't really care how it works (and it does work). I have no opinion on App Actions/Digital Web-Being.
- apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
  > No AI needed for that. These days, I'm beginning to wonder if it's even possible for a company to alphabetize without ML.
  - lmkg 8y ago
    Languages sometimes have different sort order, even when they use the same script. So I could see using ML to detect the language, in order to select the proper sort order.
    - sdenton4 8y ago

ksec 8y ago

>As an iOS developer I can't use new OS features until all my users have upgraded. As long as what I need is in the support library I can adopt the latest and greatest for Android right away. I don't know about the rate and speed of support library from the Top 5 Android manufacturers, which is Samsung, Huawei, BBKs, Xiaomi. I know they do get some regular update, but on all devices? And do those user actually update it? iOS Users Update are on a much faster cycle. iOS 12 is on 70% of compatible iOS devices within 3 months of release. iOS 11+ on 95% of all compatible iOS devices. That is pretty damn crazy if you ask me Having OS that is only 2 years old on nearly all devices.

farmerbb 8y ago
The support library is something that is statically compiled inside of Android apps. That's the reason why it exists - to circumvent the usual Android OS update process to bring new APIs to developers faster.
- ksec 8y ago
  ARH, sorry I have close to zero experience on Android Development. Thank You for pointing out.

medius 8y ago

To add to this, I have a 6 year old iPad. There are no issues with it except the operating system itself. Hulu won't install since it needs iOS 11 for some reason. iOS won't update to 11 because it's too old. Netflix works and updates just fine. The iPad is in perfect condition with no hardware issues. It's the software that will make it an ewaste soon. My Android phone updates all the apps (even many OS services) without any problem.

scarface74 8y ago
Have you ever downloaded Hulu with your account? If so, it should let you download the “last compatible version”. It worked a few months ago for me on my old first gen iPad. If you haven’t downloaded it before, you can download it with an older version of iTunes or a newer device if you have one and then it will let you download on your old device.