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Are we ready for something like the Doomsday Clock [0]? Something as simple as https://status.dropbox.com/ https://status.dropbox.com/, but for all of the Inte

Are we ready for something like the Doomsday Clock [0]? Something as simple as https://status.dropbox.com/ https://status.dropbox.com/, but for all of the Internet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock

GuB-42 8y ago
The Doomsday Clock is a joke now. It made sense during the cold war when the threat was clearly identified: a nuclear war between the USA and USSR. It is now a game of finding new unrelated threats to make sure the clock doesn't tick backwards. We could make the same useless "clock" for the internet, advancing it every time a website is blocked or a new backdoor is discovered. Making sure new threat categories are added when things get better. "Oh, it looks like https is becoming the norm, that's good, make sure to add fake news in the mix to make it look like things are getting worse..." By comparison, the Dropbox status page provides useful technical information. A similar page for all of the internet would include things like the states of root DNS servers, tier 1 networks, etc... That could be useful.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  It last ticked back in 2010. It doesn't only go forwards.
- lifeisstillgood 8y ago
  I think it would be possible to make a clock that does not rely on judgments as inputs (although has judgements as rules) You mention a couple - Status of root DNSServers But we could come up with more (I suspect around 50 metrics would be comprehensive) - Ratio of servers reachable by http vs https - Ratio of servers hosted in countries with mature legal frameworks (needs work) - Ratio of devices able to reach "representative servers" (ie can your device in beijing reach bbc news and WeChat and Russian newspaper) - Ratio of devices in areas with "24 hour" electricity supply - ratio of servers that do not have basic security holes plugged - ratio of devices that have uptodate security patches - current volume of DDOS attacks - Number of successful ransomware attacks per day - number of networks only reachable through N pipes (ie resilience to network failure) I would be interested in any thoughts / extras / improvements
  - notamerican 8y ago
    "Ratio of servers hosted in countries with mature legal frameworks (needs work)" is one that's pretty hard to measure and has huge capacity to misinform. The US, UK, Russia, 5 Eyes countries, China, the EU; everyone has a stance on whether they're safe or not. I think it better to just measure "location diversity", and give a heatmap of server locations (indicating replication and mirrors) so the user can decide for themselves.
    - Kalium 8y ago
      > The US, UK, Russia, 5 Eyes countries, China, the EU; everyone has a stance on whether they're safe or not. It might just be me, but I think it's reasonably clear that some of these places have mature legal frameworks where the rule of law exists (US, UK, EU) and some generally do not (Russia, China, Venezuela). But perhaps I'm mistaken and simply do not understand what a mature legal system is.
      - jmichaelhudson 8y ago
        >mature legal frameworks where the rule of law exists (US- whaaaaaa How is 'recording everything, decrypting everything, targeting persons of interest without warrant or record, extensive networks of informants and agents in all branches of politics, art, and business while bombing people based on their cell phone ping location globally without oversight or any attempt at legal justification' The United States is 0 privacy, 0 honesty about the actual laws in place, 'fusion centers' completely removing any sane separation of national and regional power or separation of police from military, and 50 TLA's arguing over how best to harass political activists or run criminal gangs themselves. And an entire other spy agency of a different country on the other side of the world allowed to do basically whatever they want in our borders and harvest every ounce of the data of our lives. That's not a 'mature framework', that is reverting 'civilization' to before the magna carta, much less the geneva conventions. And since in no case where it was revealed how the government is breaking its own laws and using technology to make an illegal monstrosity out of the internet has the government ever meaningfully been held to account of actually changed, behold what rules you. Stop pretending something is worth your trust just because there are flags and rotundas and people in suits on the news 24 hours a day and a cultish military junta hasn't completely taken completely over yet, visibly. edit: ...in the united states.
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  I agree, mostly because I believe the mixing of environmental catastrophe muddies the waters of both threats when there is value in knowing which is more... urgent at a point in time. Splitting the clock into a human-human clock and a human-globe clock would be more useful I believe.
- vkou 8y ago
  > The Doomsday Clock is a joke now. It made sense during the cold war when the threat was clearly identified: a nuclear war between the USA and USSR. The USA and Russia have been closer to a shooting war in the past five years, then they have in the last decade of the Cold War. And there are many ways for shooting wars to escalate to nuclear wars.
- drb91 8y ago
  The threat you mentioned is still there in the shape of an automated nuclear response system. It is just a matter of time until it malfunctions and kills us all.

GuB-42 8y ago

The Doomsday Clock is a joke now. It made sense during the cold war when the threat was clearly identified: a nuclear war between the USA and USSR. It is now a game of finding new unrelated threats to make sure the clock doesn't tick backwards. We could make the same useless "clock" for the internet, advancing it every time a website is blocked or a new backdoor is discovered. Making sure new threat categories are added when things get better. "Oh, it looks like https is becoming the norm, that's good, make sure to add fake news in the mix to make it look like things are getting worse..." By comparison, the Dropbox status page provides useful technical information. A similar page for all of the internet would include things like the states of root DNS servers, tier 1 networks, etc... That could be useful.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
It last ticked back in 2010. It doesn't only go forwards.
lifeisstillgood 8y ago
I think it would be possible to make a clock that does not rely on judgments as inputs (although has judgements as rules) You mention a couple - Status of root DNSServers But we could come up with more (I suspect around 50 metrics would be comprehensive) - Ratio of servers reachable by http vs https - Ratio of servers hosted in countries with mature legal frameworks (needs work) - Ratio of devices able to reach "representative servers" (ie can your device in beijing reach bbc news and WeChat and Russian newspaper) - Ratio of devices in areas with "24 hour" electricity supply - ratio of servers that do not have basic security holes plugged - ratio of devices that have uptodate security patches - current volume of DDOS attacks - Number of successful ransomware attacks per day - number of networks only reachable through N pipes (ie resilience to network failure) I would be interested in any thoughts / extras / improvements
- notamerican 8y ago
  "Ratio of servers hosted in countries with mature legal frameworks (needs work)" is one that's pretty hard to measure and has huge capacity to misinform. The US, UK, Russia, 5 Eyes countries, China, the EU; everyone has a stance on whether they're safe or not. I think it better to just measure "location diversity", and give a heatmap of server locations (indicating replication and mirrors) so the user can decide for themselves.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    > The US, UK, Russia, 5 Eyes countries, China, the EU; everyone has a stance on whether they're safe or not. It might just be me, but I think it's reasonably clear that some of these places have mature legal frameworks where the rule of law exists (US, UK, EU) and some generally do not (Russia, China, Venezuela). But perhaps I'm mistaken and simply do not understand what a mature legal system is.
    - jmichaelhudson 8y ago
      >mature legal frameworks where the rule of law exists (US- whaaaaaa How is 'recording everything, decrypting everything, targeting persons of interest without warrant or record, extensive networks of informants and agents in all branches of politics, art, and business while bombing people based on their cell phone ping location globally without oversight or any attempt at legal justification' The United States is 0 privacy, 0 honesty about the actual laws in place, 'fusion centers' completely removing any sane separation of national and regional power or separation of police from military, and 50 TLA's arguing over how best to harass political activists or run criminal gangs themselves. And an entire other spy agency of a different country on the other side of the world allowed to do basically whatever they want in our borders and harvest every ounce of the data of our lives. That's not a 'mature framework', that is reverting 'civilization' to before the magna carta, much less the geneva conventions. And since in no case where it was revealed how the government is breaking its own laws and using technology to make an illegal monstrosity out of the internet has the government ever meaningfully been held to account of actually changed, behold what rules you. Stop pretending something is worth your trust just because there are flags and rotundas and people in suits on the news 24 hours a day and a cultish military junta hasn't completely taken completely over yet, visibly. edit: ...in the united states.
tomatotomato37 8y ago
I agree, mostly because I believe the mixing of environmental catastrophe muddies the waters of both threats when there is value in knowing which is more... urgent at a point in time. Splitting the clock into a human-human clock and a human-globe clock would be more useful I believe.
vkou 8y ago
> The Doomsday Clock is a joke now. It made sense during the cold war when the threat was clearly identified: a nuclear war between the USA and USSR. The USA and Russia have been closer to a shooting war in the past five years, then they have in the last decade of the Cold War. And there are many ways for shooting wars to escalate to nuclear wars.
drb91 8y ago
The threat you mentioned is still there in the shape of an automated nuclear response system. It is just a matter of time until it malfunctions and kills us all.