3 ms·

My grandmother was born in 1912 and live to 97. She: - was born in a time with no antibiotics - lived on a farm with all of it's inherent risks - lived thro

My grandmother was born in 1912 and live to 97. She: - was born in a time with no antibiotics - lived on a farm with all of it's inherent risks - lived through World War 1 (granted in the United States) - survived the "Spanish Flu" (although as someone under 10 whereas hardest hit were adults) - lived through the Depression - started having children post World War 2 (now with antibiotics available). I've often thought, just making it to age 10 showed that she had a strong immune system. When she started having children, she benefited from having access to antibiotics at a time when there was no drug resistance. Looking at my parents generation (the baby boomers) and suddenly you have a generation of children where infant mortality etc goes way down (again thanks to antibiotics). In other words, children that wouldn't have survived in 1912 are now living into adulthood. We applied selection pressure to have children (and then in turn adults) with weaker immune systems. (Not saying this is a bad thing). Because of the above, I wonder how much of the life expectancy increase has to do with a kind of winning the demographic lottery of: "When I was little, my immune system kept me alive. When I was an adult, medicine took care of what my immune system couldn't."

matt4077 8y ago
This doesn’t make much sense because life expectancy cohorts are grouped by the year they are born, not the year they died. The concept of a “strong” vs “weak” immune system also doesn’t correspond to reality: for the flu, it’s hypothesized that it’s too strong an immune reaction that kills you. Many of today’s leading causes of death also don’t have much to do with the immune system, from the opioid epidemic to heart attacks, strokes, and cancer. Autoimmune disease is far ahead as a public health issue compared to infectious disease, from MS to (probably) vascular disease (edit: see this other story currently on the front page https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19742188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19742188)
phlegmatic 8y ago
And I think it might be a bit of a double edged sword, but I can't prove it. There are lots of auto-immune disorders, where the immune system is intensely over active, and many a hypothesis is put forward as to why. Having an immune system that reacts to anything and everything is awful. Ask anyone with allergies. And we're left scratching our head at why. Why so many deadly peanut allergies? Latex? Soy? Bees? It used to just be hayfever, but now we need epipens.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
I haven't come across any information that would indicate that we can generalize a person's immune system to be better than another's, outside of specified immune system disorders that have been defined. The immune system and the body in general are such a complex mechanism that it's impossible to claim one or a few persons surviving in one or a few instances and environments indicates they will have greater odds of future survival.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >I haven't come across any information that would indicate that we can generalize a person's immune system to be better than another's, There's definitely people who seem to get sick all the time and people who don't. Ask any schoolteacher and they'll tell you that for every cough/cold/whatever that goes around there's a couple kids that always get it and some that never do. Of course there's other variables like hand washing and whatnot but there's probably still some differences between people. Whether these are genetic or environmental (e.g. nutrition) I don't know.
basetop 8y ago
Another example is the life expectancy of holocaust survivors. Holocaust survivors in israel have longer life expectancy than other israelis. That's because you had to have the best immune system and psychological will to live in order to survive the disease and starvation ridden concentration camps. https://www.timesofisrael.com/surviving-holocaust-contributed-to-longevity-study-finds/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/surviving-holocaust-contribute... I agree with your point about demographic lottery. Your genetics and where you are born probably contributes significantly to your life expectancy.
sodosopa 8y ago
> and suddenly you have a generation of children where infant mortality etc goes way down (again thanks to antibiotics) Infant mortality went down in white communities, there is still a disparity between infant mortality in white communities and urban/african-american communities. Some communities have the infant mortality rate equal to a third-world country.

matt4077 8y ago

This doesn’t make much sense because life expectancy cohorts are grouped by the year they are born, not the year they died. The concept of a “strong” vs “weak” immune system also doesn’t correspond to reality: for the flu, it’s hypothesized that it’s too strong an immune reaction that kills you. Many of today’s leading causes of death also don’t have much to do with the immune system, from the opioid epidemic to heart attacks, strokes, and cancer. Autoimmune disease is far ahead as a public health issue compared to infectious disease, from MS to (probably) vascular disease (edit: see this other story currently on the front page https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19742188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19742188)

phlegmatic 8y ago

And I think it might be a bit of a double edged sword, but I can't prove it. There are lots of auto-immune disorders, where the immune system is intensely over active, and many a hypothesis is put forward as to why. Having an immune system that reacts to anything and everything is awful. Ask anyone with allergies. And we're left scratching our head at why. Why so many deadly peanut allergies? Latex? Soy? Bees? It used to just be hayfever, but now we need epipens.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

I haven't come across any information that would indicate that we can generalize a person's immune system to be better than another's, outside of specified immune system disorders that have been defined. The immune system and the body in general are such a complex mechanism that it's impossible to claim one or a few persons surviving in one or a few instances and environments indicates they will have greater odds of future survival.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>I haven't come across any information that would indicate that we can generalize a person's immune system to be better than another's, There's definitely people who seem to get sick all the time and people who don't. Ask any schoolteacher and they'll tell you that for every cough/cold/whatever that goes around there's a couple kids that always get it and some that never do. Of course there's other variables like hand washing and whatnot but there's probably still some differences between people. Whether these are genetic or environmental (e.g. nutrition) I don't know.

basetop 8y ago

Another example is the life expectancy of holocaust survivors. Holocaust survivors in israel have longer life expectancy than other israelis. That's because you had to have the best immune system and psychological will to live in order to survive the disease and starvation ridden concentration camps. https://www.timesofisrael.com/surviving-holocaust-contributed-to-longevity-study-finds/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/surviving-holocaust-contribute... I agree with your point about demographic lottery. Your genetics and where you are born probably contributes significantly to your life expectancy.

sodosopa 8y ago

> and suddenly you have a generation of children where infant mortality etc goes way down (again thanks to antibiotics) Infant mortality went down in white communities, there is still a disparity between infant mortality in white communities and urban/african-american communities. Some communities have the infant mortality rate equal to a third-world country.