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Folding arbitrary pile of laundry completely unsupervised is super hard problem. I actually have more faith in solving self-driving before that :). It seems com

Folding arbitrary pile of laundry completely unsupervised is super hard problem. I actually have more faith in solving self-driving before that :). It seems company was Japanese, used loan model (as opposed to VC funding) and went bankrupt probably because creditors went after them. Their machine cost $16,000. The article describes scenario at CES where someone tried giving it black t-shirt but apparently machine couldn't see it and got jammed! It also occurs to me that many people hang their cloth with hangers in closet instead of folding. Business proposition seems to be bit limited.

oliwarner 8y ago
> Folding arbitrary pile of laundry completely unsupervised is super hard computing and robotics problem FTFY. And the business proposition isn't "limited", it's stupid. An attempt to throw technology somewhere it cannot compete. The opportunity cost for that $16k is paying somebody minimum wage to fold clothes for you for over 2000 hours. That would last a family of four about 38 years (just folding). Cleaners, housekeepers, nannies, etc all offer this sort of service, and more. Cleaning, ironing, folding, putting away and because of the lack of skills, and the availability of people to do it, they usually can't charge that much for it. This robot took up a ton of space, barely worked by all accounts, did untold damage to clothes that got caught, and didn't do any other part of the cycle. I don't know how you can call that a proposition. It's neat but it's not saleable.
- blackrock 8y ago
  I would totally buy one. But not at that price. A clothes washing and folding robot is highly desired. But for $20,000, if the robot can also wash the dishes (not a dishwasher), vacuum the floor (not a Roomba), and do some light dusting.. then I’d buy that in a heartbeat. I do not want to pay for maid service. I don’t really want people in my personal space, so I’d rather do everything myself, which means they never get done.
- bluGill 8y ago
  This version. It isn't ready yet. If they do a $2k robot that finds my dirty clothing on the floor and puts clean clothing in the correct closet/draws (my kids, wife, and mine...) and I'm interested. Laundry takes a lot of time, and paying someone isn't really cost effective.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > paying someone isn't really cost effective. In particular, paying someone to do something makes you subject to a lot of extra regulations, which exist mainly because there's plenty of evil people who like to abuse people they hire. Getting a robot to do something for you is free from all that baggage, and if you mistreat your robot, it's only your loss.
    - oliwarner 8y ago
      Agencies can insulate clients from that sort of junk. A small percentage over the base, tends to bring liability insurance with it, so it's usually worth it.
      - TeMPOraL 8y ago
        Then again, given the horror stories I've heard about such agencies (exploiting and abusing old people and immigrants), if you're a human being with a conscience, you now have to vet the agency, which is a non-trivial task.
        JohnFen 8y ago
        > if you're a human being with a conscience, you now have to vet the agency, which is a non-trivial task. You pretty much have to vet any company you're contemplating doing business with anyway.
        oliwarner 8y ago
        No, I think this line of thinking is exceptionally counterproductive. If you are the sort of lovely person who is bothered by others' working conditions and rights, a cleaner in your home is absolutely the best outcome. Not only do you get to pay above the odds —if you want to— you get to see them, you can talk to them and ask them how they're doing in life. Conversely how do you suppose the teenagers who assembled your robot is being cared for? What about the miners extracting the rare earth metals used in batteries and motors? What about the villages around said mines that suffer horrific levels of pollution? And what about the dump where all this ends up in under 10 years time?
- winningcontinue 8y ago
  well, you're assuming that its' only an hour of folding a week. It's highly variable for different people. But for families that do fold most of their clothes (and folding is the better way to store your clothes than just hanging it), many would spend over an hour doing it. My wife does most the laundry and we got two kids. It's a good half a day to clean all our weekly clothes, towels and sheets. There's a market for this product you put it in the exact way that explains why it failed.
  - oliwarner 8y ago
    I'm basing that on an extrapolation of our family, yes, but we do have a toddler, so I'm not that out of kilter with real life. Remember we're only talking about folding here. I don't think we spend much more than an hour contact time doing the full cycle. But for folding, I allow 20 seconds an item, 180 items... With absolutely no checking, that seems right. However you look at your personal situation, you have to generate a lot more load before you're not talking about a period of duration which would clearly outstrips the lifetime of the clothes-folding robot.
netheril96 8y ago
> It also occurs to me that many people hang their cloth with hangers in closet instead of folding. Business proposition seems to be bit limited. The logic does not follow in these two sentences. I hang my clothes instead of folding, because I am lazy. If a machine with a reasonable cost could do the folding for me, I would buy it, since folded clothes occupy much less space.
perl4ever 8y ago
"I actually have more faith in solving self-driving before that" Interesting. It seems obvious to me that self-driving is much harder. One reason that comes to mind is there is a lot more diversity in the environment while driving, and of the behavior of things you meet. Also, when a car gets confused it has more momentum, and is in traffic, so halting seems likely to be much harder.

oliwarner 8y ago

> Folding arbitrary pile of laundry completely unsupervised is super hard computing and robotics problem FTFY. And the business proposition isn't "limited", it's stupid. An attempt to throw technology somewhere it cannot compete. The opportunity cost for that $16k is paying somebody minimum wage to fold clothes for you for over 2000 hours. That would last a family of four about 38 years (just folding). Cleaners, housekeepers, nannies, etc all offer this sort of service, and more. Cleaning, ironing, folding, putting away and because of the lack of skills, and the availability of people to do it, they usually can't charge that much for it. This robot took up a ton of space, barely worked by all accounts, did untold damage to clothes that got caught, and didn't do any other part of the cycle. I don't know how you can call that a proposition. It's neat but it's not saleable.

blackrock 8y ago
I would totally buy one. But not at that price. A clothes washing and folding robot is highly desired. But for $20,000, if the robot can also wash the dishes (not a dishwasher), vacuum the floor (not a Roomba), and do some light dusting.. then I’d buy that in a heartbeat. I do not want to pay for maid service. I don’t really want people in my personal space, so I’d rather do everything myself, which means they never get done.
bluGill 8y ago
This version. It isn't ready yet. If they do a $2k robot that finds my dirty clothing on the floor and puts clean clothing in the correct closet/draws (my kids, wife, and mine...) and I'm interested. Laundry takes a lot of time, and paying someone isn't really cost effective.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > paying someone isn't really cost effective. In particular, paying someone to do something makes you subject to a lot of extra regulations, which exist mainly because there's plenty of evil people who like to abuse people they hire. Getting a robot to do something for you is free from all that baggage, and if you mistreat your robot, it's only your loss.
  - oliwarner 8y ago
    Agencies can insulate clients from that sort of junk. A small percentage over the base, tends to bring liability insurance with it, so it's usually worth it.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      Then again, given the horror stories I've heard about such agencies (exploiting and abusing old people and immigrants), if you're a human being with a conscience, you now have to vet the agency, which is a non-trivial task.
      - JohnFen 8y ago
        > if you're a human being with a conscience, you now have to vet the agency, which is a non-trivial task. You pretty much have to vet any company you're contemplating doing business with anyway.
      - oliwarner 8y ago
        No, I think this line of thinking is exceptionally counterproductive. If you are the sort of lovely person who is bothered by others' working conditions and rights, a cleaner in your home is absolutely the best outcome. Not only do you get to pay above the odds —if you want to— you get to see them, you can talk to them and ask them how they're doing in life. Conversely how do you suppose the teenagers who assembled your robot is being cared for? What about the miners extracting the rare earth metals used in batteries and motors? What about the villages around said mines that suffer horrific levels of pollution? And what about the dump where all this ends up in under 10 years time?
winningcontinue 8y ago
well, you're assuming that its' only an hour of folding a week. It's highly variable for different people. But for families that do fold most of their clothes (and folding is the better way to store your clothes than just hanging it), many would spend over an hour doing it. My wife does most the laundry and we got two kids. It's a good half a day to clean all our weekly clothes, towels and sheets. There's a market for this product you put it in the exact way that explains why it failed.
- oliwarner 8y ago
  I'm basing that on an extrapolation of our family, yes, but we do have a toddler, so I'm not that out of kilter with real life. Remember we're only talking about folding here. I don't think we spend much more than an hour contact time doing the full cycle. But for folding, I allow 20 seconds an item, 180 items... With absolutely no checking, that seems right. However you look at your personal situation, you have to generate a lot more load before you're not talking about a period of duration which would clearly outstrips the lifetime of the clothes-folding robot.

netheril96 8y ago

> It also occurs to me that many people hang their cloth with hangers in closet instead of folding. Business proposition seems to be bit limited. The logic does not follow in these two sentences. I hang my clothes instead of folding, because I am lazy. If a machine with a reasonable cost could do the folding for me, I would buy it, since folded clothes occupy much less space.

perl4ever 8y ago

"I actually have more faith in solving self-driving before that" Interesting. It seems obvious to me that self-driving is much harder. One reason that comes to mind is there is a lot more diversity in the environment while driving, and of the behavior of things you meet. Also, when a car gets confused it has more momentum, and is in traffic, so halting seems likely to be much harder.