5 ms·

> The internet does not discriminate. Get an account named X. We don't discriminate against you, but you have to hide every aspect of who you are otherwise we'

by DanBC 8y ago

> The internet does not discriminate. Get an account named X. We don't discriminate against you, but you have to hide every aspect of who you are otherwise we're going to threaten to rape you to death.

rape-rape-rape 8y ago
I'm beyond the point of wrapping my words in a cushion that's laser sculpted to fit your ears. I'm just going to dump the words I want into yet another text field, and call it a day. You know why? Because it isn't a violent crime and we're probably thousands of miles away from one another.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
otabdeveloper1 8y ago
Non-discrimination and acceptance isn't the same thing. You can't force people to like you, and you shouldn't.
- Ensorceled 8y ago
  Do you really believe explicit, credible death and/or rape threats for being a woman with opinions on Marvel movies or games or being LGBQ are examples of a non-discriminatory environment?
  - Phenix88be 8y ago
    Internet is a tool to communicate freely and regardless of the message. Internet isn't "people". If someone harass you with your phone, you don't blame the phone, you blame the harasser. The phone is fine.
    - mtberatwork 8y ago
      The murkiness is that the tool shields the harasser from any sort of consequences that would occur if the exchange happened in the physical world.
      - Phenix88be 8y ago
        The same way journalist and activist are protected. Should you blame the mailman if he deliver some harassing anonymous letter ? The physical mail offer the same sort of protection if it's done properly.
        woodruffw 8y ago
        If someone harassed me with anonymous letters, I would open a police report. The point is that no equivalent recourse exists online. Edit: The point being that the mailman is a red herring. If the internet is really an extension of public space as (presumably) claimed, let's treat it like one.
        Phenix88be 8y ago
        > If someone harassed me with anonymous letters, I would open a police report. In my country, I can open a police report for online harassment.
        mtberatwork 8y ago
        ..and on average, how well does that work out for the victim?
        Phenix88be 8y ago
        I m no expert in that field. Probably better than you think since the police has access to a lot of tools to find you and been an harasser doesn't mean you have the technical skill to be anonymous enougth. We are now in an endless debate. Internet isn't the problem. Bad behaviours, uneducation, missinformation, fake news, etc are the problem. Blaming internet won't solve those. And they will be ready for the next tool.
  - funkythingsss 8y ago
    Do you have proof that this woman is targeted, because she is a woman? People get harassed all the time, though VERY rarely in the scope of things. I don't condone it. Still, it is rare and hits both genders roughly equally.
  - rossenberg79 8y ago
    A true non-discriminatory environment is also an environment of no mercy. All opinions are permitted, even ones you will find incredibly vile and threatening. So think carefully when you ask for this kind of environment. I think what some people are actually asking for when they say "non-discriminatory" is an environment where people who do not accept minority members or opinions are not welcomed.
    - funkythingsss 8y ago
      well said.
    - Ensorceled 8y ago
      Ejecting people for making rape and death threats to other members of the community is not the same as ejecting members of the community for being PoC, LGBTQ, Nazis or Republicans. These are not the same thing.
      - rocqua 8y ago
        The distinction being action taken towards other members on the one hand (the making of threats) and convictions (being PoC, LGBTQ, Nazi) on the other hand? What about convictions that compel action (Jihadis, Jehovas, militant atheists, Nazis) it might serve to eject people of those convictions because it should be expected they take those actions.
      - Nasrudith 8y ago
        Yeah but it is a "anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human" thing. It says nothing of worthiness and everything about possibilities because worthiness is ultimately a matter of opinion. It is like asking for bullets which only hurt guilty people whom it would be necessary to shoot.
  - otabdeveloper1 8y ago
    "Non-discrimination" means using a verifiable and objective yardstick when judging professional performance. Death and rape threads on the intertubes is just people being mean. Deal with it, there will always be somebody who hates you. Life's tough.
    - progval 8y ago
      > Life's tough. It doesn't have to be.
  - time-lord 8y ago
    Does anyone really believe that a rape/death threat is a credible, honest threat, when it comes in response to a commercial for a Marvel movie or a video game? I mean, I get that there was that whole massive rape and slaughter epidemic after the female Ghostbusters reboot, where hundreds of thousands of souls lost their lives and/or virginity, but come on. Also, those rape and death threats from the Mexican drug cartels. Now THAT is what a fictitious threat looks like. Am I right? I mean, when's the last time anyone got raped or murdered over drugs in Mexico?
- Angostura 8y ago
  Just to be clear, that means that you are discriminating 0 changing your behaviour, based on your perceptions of that person's characteristics.
rape-U2-death 8y ago
Empty threats at best. The reality is that words, words, words on the internet are only worth so much. Meanwhile, IRL it's much more likely to wind up in jail mostly by virtue of having a penis, than it is to ever get brutally raped by a total stranger. Internet or not. And then there's that whole thing about man ass rape in prison, which is basically laughed at. So who's really getting victimized by society.
mindslight 8y ago
As somebody who wants to hide every aspect of who I am regardless, I don't find this a particularly compelling argument. I'll admit it's easy for me to say, but I'm less concerned about receiving stateless baseless threats than to have my entire life cataloged and foreseen by surveillance machines. I suspect this is a big part of the divide between the old guard "nobody knows you're a dog" and the new "broadcast your identity". I turn to the Internet to not be participating in the monkeysphere. Any trace I leave behind is due to laziness rather than intent. I do have to wonder how much this is just inevitable "normie" human behavior, and how much it has been stoked by companies pushing realname policies and profile selfies.
dang 8y ago
Anyone threatening other users here would soon get banned. You surely know that as well as anyone. Would you please stop upping the inflammation like this in HN comments? You've been doing it a lot, and we've been cutting you a lot of slack because you've been a good contributor over the years, but this is not cool, and I can feel my roll of slack running out. If your taste for ideological warfare is growing, please gratify it elsewhere, not here. This comment violates numerous site guidelines, including: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Eschew flamebait." "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- DanBC 8y ago
  There are women who post to HN but who hide the fact that they're women, because of the attitudes displayed in this thread. There are a bunch of women who don't post to HN at all. I'll dial it back a bit, but you need to regain control from the misogynists who are making this place hostile to others. Parent post is literally telling women not to identify as women, yet you didn't say anything to them. Respectfully, you need better aim.
  - dang 8y ago
    If you're concerned about that, you need to stop pumping aggression into this place, by which you're contributing to making it more hostile and less safe. A war zone can never be safe and welcoming. First stop making HN more of a war zone (which you've done a lot over the years, routinely calling people cunts and all the rest of it—which as I said, we've cut you a ton of slack for when we would have banned others), and we'll be interested in your ideas about how to make HN less hostile to others.

by DanBC 8y ago

rape-rape-rape 8y ago

I'm beyond the point of wrapping my words in a cushion that's laser sculpted to fit your ears. I'm just going to dump the words I want into yet another text field, and call it a day. You know why? Because it isn't a violent crime and we're probably thousands of miles away from one another.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

otabdeveloper1 8y ago

Non-discrimination and acceptance isn't the same thing. You can't force people to like you, and you shouldn't.

Ensorceled 8y ago
Do you really believe explicit, credible death and/or rape threats for being a woman with opinions on Marvel movies or games or being LGBQ are examples of a non-discriminatory environment?
- Phenix88be 8y ago
  Internet is a tool to communicate freely and regardless of the message. Internet isn't "people". If someone harass you with your phone, you don't blame the phone, you blame the harasser. The phone is fine.
  - mtberatwork 8y ago
    The murkiness is that the tool shields the harasser from any sort of consequences that would occur if the exchange happened in the physical world.
    - Phenix88be 8y ago
      The same way journalist and activist are protected. Should you blame the mailman if he deliver some harassing anonymous letter ? The physical mail offer the same sort of protection if it's done properly.
      - woodruffw 8y ago
        If someone harassed me with anonymous letters, I would open a police report. The point is that no equivalent recourse exists online. Edit: The point being that the mailman is a red herring. If the internet is really an extension of public space as (presumably) claimed, let's treat it like one.
        Phenix88be 8y ago
        > If someone harassed me with anonymous letters, I would open a police report. In my country, I can open a police report for online harassment.
        mtberatwork 8y ago
        ..and on average, how well does that work out for the victim?
        Phenix88be 8y ago
        I m no expert in that field. Probably better than you think since the police has access to a lot of tools to find you and been an harasser doesn't mean you have the technical skill to be anonymous enougth. We are now in an endless debate. Internet isn't the problem. Bad behaviours, uneducation, missinformation, fake news, etc are the problem. Blaming internet won't solve those. And they will be ready for the next tool.
- funkythingsss 8y ago
  Do you have proof that this woman is targeted, because she is a woman? People get harassed all the time, though VERY rarely in the scope of things. I don't condone it. Still, it is rare and hits both genders roughly equally.
- rossenberg79 8y ago
  A true non-discriminatory environment is also an environment of no mercy. All opinions are permitted, even ones you will find incredibly vile and threatening. So think carefully when you ask for this kind of environment. I think what some people are actually asking for when they say "non-discriminatory" is an environment where people who do not accept minority members or opinions are not welcomed.
  - funkythingsss 8y ago
    well said.
  - Ensorceled 8y ago
    Ejecting people for making rape and death threats to other members of the community is not the same as ejecting members of the community for being PoC, LGBTQ, Nazis or Republicans. These are not the same thing.
    - rocqua 8y ago
      The distinction being action taken towards other members on the one hand (the making of threats) and convictions (being PoC, LGBTQ, Nazi) on the other hand? What about convictions that compel action (Jihadis, Jehovas, militant atheists, Nazis) it might serve to eject people of those convictions because it should be expected they take those actions.
    - Nasrudith 8y ago
      Yeah but it is a "anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human" thing. It says nothing of worthiness and everything about possibilities because worthiness is ultimately a matter of opinion. It is like asking for bullets which only hurt guilty people whom it would be necessary to shoot.
- otabdeveloper1 8y ago
  "Non-discrimination" means using a verifiable and objective yardstick when judging professional performance. Death and rape threads on the intertubes is just people being mean. Deal with it, there will always be somebody who hates you. Life's tough.
  - progval 8y ago
    > Life's tough. It doesn't have to be.
- time-lord 8y ago
  Does anyone really believe that a rape/death threat is a credible, honest threat, when it comes in response to a commercial for a Marvel movie or a video game? I mean, I get that there was that whole massive rape and slaughter epidemic after the female Ghostbusters reboot, where hundreds of thousands of souls lost their lives and/or virginity, but come on. Also, those rape and death threats from the Mexican drug cartels. Now THAT is what a fictitious threat looks like. Am I right? I mean, when's the last time anyone got raped or murdered over drugs in Mexico?
Angostura 8y ago
Just to be clear, that means that you are discriminating 0 changing your behaviour, based on your perceptions of that person's characteristics.

rape-U2-death 8y ago

Empty threats at best. The reality is that words, words, words on the internet are only worth so much. Meanwhile, IRL it's much more likely to wind up in jail mostly by virtue of having a penis, than it is to ever get brutally raped by a total stranger. Internet or not. And then there's that whole thing about man ass rape in prison, which is basically laughed at. So who's really getting victimized by society.

mindslight 8y ago

As somebody who wants to hide every aspect of who I am regardless, I don't find this a particularly compelling argument. I'll admit it's easy for me to say, but I'm less concerned about receiving stateless baseless threats than to have my entire life cataloged and foreseen by surveillance machines. I suspect this is a big part of the divide between the old guard "nobody knows you're a dog" and the new "broadcast your identity". I turn to the Internet to not be participating in the monkeysphere. Any trace I leave behind is due to laziness rather than intent. I do have to wonder how much this is just inevitable "normie" human behavior, and how much it has been stoked by companies pushing realname policies and profile selfies.

dang 8y ago

Anyone threatening other users here would soon get banned. You surely know that as well as anyone. Would you please stop upping the inflammation like this in HN comments? You've been doing it a lot, and we've been cutting you a lot of slack because you've been a good contributor over the years, but this is not cool, and I can feel my roll of slack running out. If your taste for ideological warfare is growing, please gratify it elsewhere, not here. This comment violates numerous site guidelines, including: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Eschew flamebait." "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

DanBC 8y ago
There are women who post to HN but who hide the fact that they're women, because of the attitudes displayed in this thread. There are a bunch of women who don't post to HN at all. I'll dial it back a bit, but you need to regain control from the misogynists who are making this place hostile to others. Parent post is literally telling women not to identify as women, yet you didn't say anything to them. Respectfully, you need better aim.
- dang 8y ago
  If you're concerned about that, you need to stop pumping aggression into this place, by which you're contributing to making it more hostile and less safe. A war zone can never be safe and welcoming. First stop making HN more of a war zone (which you've done a lot over the years, routinely calling people cunts and all the rest of it—which as I said, we've cut you a ton of slack for when we would have banned others), and we'll be interested in your ideas about how to make HN less hostile to others.